What's Wrong with these pictures?

[KVO]

Also, sometimes the bullets rotate in the block as they rebound at the end of their travel. My gel has been re-used so many times it's no longer clear, but this illustrates the point. The picured .44 250gr HP (Mihec #503 clone, 10gr unique, large pin) are larger in every dimension than the wound channel left behind them at the end of their travel. The product is very elastic (as is real tissue) but won't show the same kind of testing and blood shot tissue you'd have in live game.

[GARD72977]

I don't get to shoot the clear gel. That's for Engeeniers that want to show off cool stuff to the public or big shots.

I get to use the yellowish stuff that we mix up. It stinks something awful when it thaws and ruines. Its made from animal bone I think.

[jmort]

Brass Fetcher comparison synthetic clear gel and Porcine gel

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Syntheti...20Gelatin.html

Military testing is often done with 20% gel which if tougher and less temperature sensitive

I bought a Clear Ballistics kit and it is interesting.

Closest thing to Procine 10% gel is wetpack newspaper. It is between 95 to 100% similar in results. Penetration, expansion. Soak some newspaper for two days and bundle it up. Inexpensive and accurate compared to 10% gel.

If you look here, scroll down, you will see a very short slow motion video of a Federal 148 grain wadcutter going 650 FPS shooting straight through a 16" block of 20% gel. I love watching it.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Handguns...%20Videos.html

[GARD72977]

However the 9mm bullets seem to NOT EXPAND.... somewhat of an issue with a "self defense cartridge" that cost 1.50$ each.[/QUOTE]

I dont agree with this statement. 9mm are no different than any similar cartridge.

When you have a barrier the bullet has to go through before Gel there will be a difference in expansion or Upset. These bullets are designed to expand with a velocity range. If I defend my self with a short barrel pistol and shoot some one with a jacket, sweater and undershirt my bullet may not expand at all. The loss of velocity is an issue and the type of barrier is another. Just too many variables to say a bullet won't expand.

If we test a 9mm bullet and it does not upset to specs ,it fails and is not sold.

You can't expect a 9mm to have the same realibilty of upset as a 357mag in real world situations. Keep in mind there are some variables that will keep a 357mag from upset.

[Good Cheer]

Picked up some longer 223 bullets at the Sierra seconds store quite a while back to experiment with for tumbling.
The original concept behind the round was to use projectiles only marginally stabilized such that tumble happened.
Well, will do the tests when I get the time.

[ducati]

This comparison of 9mm and 45 is not a good example. The 45 is using a Federal bullet and the 9mm a Mag tech. I would use bullets by the same maker. I would not use the Mag Tech except for punching paper or varmint. I am a big bullet man, but I have seen testing done and the results with the 9mm in this thread do not match what I have seen.

[pettypace]

This comparison of 9mm and 45 is not a good example. The 45 is using a Federal bullet and the 9mm a Mag tech. I would use bullets by the same maker.

OK, here's Federal 9mm to compare to the Federal 45 ACP. None of the 9mm's expanded, but at least two (and maybe four) did the 180 degree flip and made a mess of the gelatin. The one bullet that clearly came to rest still heading down-range had 2-4" extra penetration and it's permanent cavity in the gel looks pretty thin.



It still looks to me like the tumbling 9's are leaving just as much (or more) permanent cavity in the gel than the expanding 45's. And the 9's are getting 3 inches more penetration which could be decisive in some situations. So, my questions remain: First, is tumbling an under-appreciated characteristic in handgun ammo for self-defense? And second, is it conceivable that Federal (in this case) doesn't know full-well that their 147 Hydra-Shok does damage through tumbling rather than through expansion?