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Thread: 30-40 Krag to 6.5mm??

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    "this is for guys who think that 30-40 krag brass is done. grafs, captech and hornady does it too. "

    Captech has been dead for about a year.
    Grafs is a reseller. They manufacture nothing that I know of.
    Hornady is probably loading brass made by some one else. Example the 6.5 Jap brass is supposedly manufactured by PPU.
    In case you missed it Hornady brass in .35 Rem for example is NOT competitively priced. I expect over priced products to be poor sellers, hard to find and not long in the market. Try buying .405 brass made by Hornady today.
    well, grafs is selling captech brass. hornady brass is about $1 cheaper than grafs. PPU is good enuff for me. i took a 8x57 ppu and necked it up to 9.3x57. they've been fired about 6 or 7 times. i don't have the need for the 35 rem or 405 win.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doughty View Post
    Not sure about this, but I thought the x58r Danish was made from .45-90 brass???
    you could make the 6.5 krag using 45 basic. but i'm at a loss for making x58 danish for 45-90.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    This is not exactly what you asked about, but close. It was based on a Ruger #3 in 30-40 Krag. The wildcat is a 30-40 case blown out nearly straight and the shoulder moved forward. The neck is 7mm long and 7mm in diameter. The angle is pretty sharp, but I forget the exact angle. It is a near duplicate to the .280 Remington cartridge ballistically.

    I form it by necking down the 30-40 neck to 7mm. I load it with about 12-13gr of Red Dot. Any fast powder will work. Then fill the rest of the case with plastic shotshell buffer. Then I push wax into the neck to hold it in place. Then, fire it. It will fireform to the shape of the chamber. I have no idea if anyone has ever made an identical wildcat. I just went ahead and did it (although the 7mm/30-30 Ken Water's cartridge was an inspiration -- I just thought it was a bit small).

    I use normally 50gr of IMR4350 powder with a 140gr bullet. It averages about 2,880fps. I have taken it up to 55gr without problems other than slightly less accuracy. I have also experimented with IMR4064, IMR4831, and IMR4895 but have dropped them. My best bullet is one of the Barnes triple shock. It is long so I can seat it out beyond where it touches the rifling. When I close the dropping block, it breaks the bond between the bullet and the case and seats it back a little bit while still touching the rifling. It is very accurate with equal pull from every bullet when fired. This works for me better than seating the bullet 0.010" to 0.020" back from the rifling without breaking the bond. Lead jacketed bullets cannot be set out long enough to do this. The barrel is a heavy contour 26" long stainless steel Lija barrel. It has a #1 style stock and a 6x18 Nikon scope. I have two custom sets of dies from Hornady, one for use and one for a backup.

    It shoots less than one-MOA. Occasionally, but often enough to make it interesting, it shoots less than one-half-MOA.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Harry O; 12-21-2018 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Doughty's Avatar
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    HarryO
    What name did you give this creature and where did you have the reamer made?
    AKA "Old Vic"
    "I am a great believer in powder-burning".
    --Theodore Roosevelt, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman

  5. #25
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    This time next year what will you do for brass when Grafs is sold out?
    What does PPU have to do with Krag brass?
    Practically speaking you don't need Krag brass either you merely want it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 500Linebaughbuck View Post
    well, grafs is selling captech brass. hornady brass is about $1 cheaper than grafs. PPU is good enuff for me. i took a 8x57 ppu and necked it up to 9.3x57. they've been fired about 6 or 7 times. i don't have the need for the 35 rem or 405 win.
    EDG

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doughty View Post
    HarryO
    What name did you give this creature and where did you have the reamer made?
    I call it "No Name on the Bullet". That was Audie Murphy's favorite movie that he starred in and the name of the Biography of him.

    I don't recall who made the reamers. It has been more than 20 years, maybe 25. However, the round count for the barrel is less than 450 rounds. There is plenty of life still in it. I only rarely pull it out and shoot it at the 200 yard range. Even though I am no target shooter have learned a LOT from that gun. My gunsmith (may he rest in peace) was talking with 2 or perhaps 3 reamer makers at the time. I did not recognize their names but, whoever it was, did good work.

    I had learned in previous projects that I should tell my gunsmith what I wanted and then I should listen if he made suggestions. He was generally right. For example, I told him that I wanted the shoulder on the case blown out straight with a one-caliber neck and a sharp transition. We ended up with 2 or 3 thousandths taper at the front. The neck ended up just a bit more than 1 caliber for some reason. The transition is not super sharp either. Etc, etc.

    I had an extra Ruger #3 in 30-40 Krag, plenty of brass, and some extra cash. So the most expensive things were the loading dies, the reamers, and the barrel. Once I paid for the first custom loading dies, the second one was cheap, so it got one for a backup. It is still sealed in Hornady plastic shrink-wrap. Loading dies and reamer would have been a lot less expensive if it happened to be a "stock" wildcat. There was nothing really close when we looked at P.O. Ackley's book. I wanted the shoulder moved forward, not Ackley improved. You could cut a lot of cost out of a custom if you find a previous wildcat close to what you want.

    The stock was very reasonable since it was laminated (plastic stocks did not have the bugs worked out of them at that time and I did not want solid --wandering -- walnut). We machined a walnut shim to go between the bars under the barrel (ahead of the action) and the barrel to put uplift on the barrel. Without the shim, the shots would climb rapidly with heat. Groups enlarge much slower now and go in all directions instead of climbing. In any case, the best way to shoot is VERY slowly.

    Attached is a picture of the die box and three cases. Left is an unmodified 30-40 Krag case. The middle is a fireformed case. The right is a loaded wildcat. Several people have questioned my choice of a bullet, but it works well. Other bullets I have tried don't work as well. I have no doubt that a REAL long range target shooter could do much better than me, but it is by far, the most accurate gun I have. It should, considering what it cost. It was worth it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Harry O; 12-22-2018 at 07:32 PM.

  7. #27
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    Poor OP wants to build a 6.5x30-40 and is being told 100 other options !

    Sound like an excellent idea for a No. 1 and would probably do anything a 6.5 Creedmore or 6.5x55 will.

    I'd suggest you get a reamer made that mirrors the 25 imp Krag except in .264. A long throat and fast twist would let you use today's great VLD bullets.

    Any reamer maker could make you a reamer. I'm sure with a combination of Krag and 6.5x55 dies you could gerry-rig up some Krag cases for fireforming. Then any die maker would make you dies from those cases.

    Sounds like a great project. Lemme know if you do it as I have several boring No. 1s to do something with. I imagine a 243 one could be rebored/rechambered to your new 6.5 Krag.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Doughty's Avatar
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    HarryO

    Thanks for the info.
    AKA "Old Vic"
    "I am a great believer in powder-burning".
    --Theodore Roosevelt, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman

  9. #29
    Boolit Master Doughty's Avatar
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    Are the gods trying to tell me something? I was just gifted 100 rounds of unfired R-P .30-40 brass.
    AKA "Old Vic"
    "I am a great believer in powder-burning".
    --Theodore Roosevelt, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman

  10. #30
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    Doughty, maybe the gods are really on your side. I've been seriously thinking about the 37 rimmed. All it is, is a 303 British case necked up to 375 caliber. Does leave a tiny shoulder so headspacing on the rim would definitely be the way to go. Could use either a #4MKII action that has a separate bolt release than the earlier #4MKI* or a P14 action which I have put away. I'd love to hear about your 375 Krags if you wish to pm me. Frank

  11. #31
    In Remembrance Reverend Al's Avatar
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    Another thought is rather than cutting a chamber for a wildcat how about utilizing an already existing cartridge utilizing the rimmed .30-40 Krag or .303 British case? Years ago a friend had a nicely made English sporter rifle in 6.5 Dutch and it was simple to make it from readily available .303 British cases (way more common up here in Canada than .30-40 Krag brass). The 6.5 Dutch is a rimmed round and virtually identical on the base and rim dimensions so ran some .303 cases through a couple of intermediate sizing dies and finished up using a 6.5x54MS full length sizer to end up with 6.5 Dutch rimmed. They chambered perfectly in his Rigby (Steyr) sporter and will Hornady 160 grain round nose bullets it shot right on the rifle's open sights at 100 yards. Just a thought since it's a standard cartridge already and could be easily formed using existing (non special order aka EXPENSIVE) dies. In a modern (stronger) single shot action I'm sure it could be loaded to much higher levels than the listed 6.5 Dutch loads suitable to the old Steyr split bridge action ...
    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  12. #32
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    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    If you are serious about this give Dave Davidson (CH4D) a call and see what he has for dies on the shelf. I would not be suprised if he already has a 6.5 Krag - but is it the design you want?
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check