cross checking references

[crankycalico]

Its always been good advice to cross check loading manuals. Its what everyone suggests. Its smart really it is.

however, when I decided to take up cast bullets for rifles, I saw the Harris data, and was always baffled by it. Never could find anything from a powder company to "prove" the safety of it.. Finally a PDF download link gave me the 1980 edition of the lyman cast bullet book, and got my cross reference data for Unique, red dot, so im happy.

But what about bullseye? Or for creating relatively slow loads using small bullets, like the "famous" roundball load of 5-800fps from a .308 or 8x57"

[Bent Ramrod]

Just a surmise, but I think the powder companies figure they have their necks stuck out far enough already. They carefully blend and test their blends to come up with a “canister” grade powder that will give repeatable pressures (and fairly repeatable velocities) from lot to lot in the commercial cartridges they are willing to expend the resources to reload and test. Ditto the reloading equipment companies, with the moulds and dies they offer.

The “out of the box” loads, from squibs to “shoot cast bullets HOT!!” and the experimental essays with unrecommended or unknown powders or wildcat cartridges are still the province of the advanced handloader, working up carefully and noting any potential problems along the way. They used to do this all the time, without benefit of pressure transducers, chronographs or a legal department, and managed to achieve safe loads in their guns. They would publish their results, and how they achieved them, knowing that anybody with enough experience and the normal use of their heads and hands could come up with something similar in their guns.

With luck, you may find some crank who has an Oehler lab setup and is willing to publish pressures on the oddball applications he loads for. Short of that, it will be up to the reputation of the guy writing the article and the care you take in replicating his results.

[Rcmaveric]

Cross referencing is playing it safe and highly recommended for beginners and continueing is a good safe habbit. Well some of the calibers I reload have no cast bullet load data. So it is up to me to write my own recipes. I can extropulate from simmilar carttridges but that doesnt always work. So with a shelf full of different powders, burn rate chart and Quickloads i get my guns shooting. Start low and work up.

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[Larry Gibson]

"But what about bullseye? Or for creating relatively slow loads using small bullets, like the "famous" roundball load of 5-800fps from a .308 or 8x57" "

Sometimes you can find some loads as such in older publications. However as to "validating" pressure such loads most often do not generate enough pressure to even obturate the cartridge cases so measuring the pressure isn't possible with most cartridge pressure measuring equipment.

[samari46]

Just bought the 2019 Hogdon reloading annual. Many loads with pressure data for start and max loads. If I'm working with powders I have used before and have data worked up for a specific powder, bullet, load, and primer normally don't cross check. IMR 4350, IMR 4895 and a couple others for example. But when in uncharted territory say VV140 in the 6.5x55 Swedish mauser I cross check and even have a copy of the VV manual. Some rifles have never seen a cast bullet and conversely some have
never seen a cast bullet. I or 2 for hunting the rest for punching paper. My Finn Model 27 has never seen a cast bullet since I got it in a a swap decades ago and was my really first serious cast bullet rifle. And my Sako 75 Hunter which has only seen jacketed since I bought it. Shoots jacketed great. The Sako just might have a new career as a cast bullet rifle. Has enough wear so no tricks with the throat trigger I readjusted to be safe while hunting can now also be readjusted safely for cast. Frank

[crankycalico]

SOme good reminders, but the companies aren't THAT willing to stretch their imaginations with what they produce for us.

I doubt if you called up and asked for Unique loads for a 30-06 theyd most likely go "uh Unique is a pistol powder sir, can I interest you in a rifle powder?"

[frankmako]

i have call several different powder companies and asked them for load data that they don't show. everyone of them have help me some. i just talked with ken johnson of shooters world powder about load data with their powder. ken was very helpfull and a great guy to talk with.

[AlaskaMike]

You do have to be a little careful when comparing load data from different sources. For example, some sources don't include the OAL they used. Maybe they seated the bullet out a little farther than other sources you look at.

I think when most people consult multiple sources they do so with the intention of using a load that all, or at least most of the sources would indicate is reasonable (I hesitate to say "safe"). However, I've met some handloaders who look up load data from multiple sources, and then just automatically pick the one with the highest velocity, or powder charge for a given bullet weight. That's not a smart way to go about it, especially when you consider things like the OAL issue I mentioned. Also there may be significant differences between bullets which could affect pressure, even though they weigh the same. There's also the fact that every single printed load manual I have from the early 1960s to present contains multiple typos within the load data itself.

There's lots of variables that may or may not be apparent when you check multiple load data sources, so just do so with that in mind and exercise caution.

[Rcmaveric]

I set my COL for the individual gun and start low and go high in like .3 to .5g increments. Keeping an eye out for over pressures. Then look for the accurate loads. Sometimes there is one accurate load and its a small window. Sometimes there are several and they have 1g window of accuracy.

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