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Thread: Modified Lee 7/8 oz. Slug Mould ~ Brenneke'ized!

  1. #81
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I've shot in -15C weather before (that's 5 degrees F) which is cold enough for me! With wind it is miserable if a guy is just sitting and shooting. Cross country skiing, snowshoeing or about any activity that keeps you moving its different but as I get older I find sitting and shooting in the cold is not much fun. Don't mind a few shots but I've got some serious testing to do here!

    Yup, got car heaters, got warm clothes, got all of it and use it. However, the older I get the less desire I have to sit on a cold bench holding a cold gun and shooting. Down to freezing it isn't too bad and even maybe to -5 C but after that... call me a wuss!

    I got everything loaded and may make up some more of these Brenneke'ized slugs while I wait. I'll likely get 'er done next weekend.

    Longbow

  2. #82
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    That's more like it! :>)

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  3. #83
    Boolit Master Markopolo's Avatar
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    Lol at the Californian...

    LB, do t try to do all your stuff in one shot.. go out there, shoot a few of one of them, and then go get warm.. dont havta take a bucket load of everything.. lots of guys are sitting around waiting with baited frosty breath for your work. You have a captive audience, better take advantage... lol

    Now, enough pep talk, get your long johns on and take a couple handfuls of them lee slugs and let’s see the dance!!!..
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  4. #84
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Hahaha! Ya I've been doing a lot of talking and not much shooting lately!

    I'll git er done shortly regardless of weather but I doubt it will be this weekend. Most likely next week or next weekend. Depends on my work... I haven't had a lot lately so if that trend continues I'll get to the range next week and get some shooting done.

    I'm thinking I should make up and load a few more of those Lee slugs too. I've got lots cast so its just assembly then load.

    I mentioned in my other thread that I've done a bit of work to the Slugster too. Its got the M*Carbo spring set in it now, I painted the front sight white and filed the rear sight leaf a little larger so now I can see things better.

    I'll test the first batch of Brenneke'ized Lee slugs in my single shot because I know where and how it shoots but I want to get the Slugster in on this too so more slug loads it is.

    Less talk... more shooting! Its coming!

    Longbow

  5. #85
    Boolit Master Markopolo's Avatar
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    Well, don’t give up the speeches though... we like them too...
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  6. #86
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    LB: What exactly do you do for work?

    Don't worry about being "Naturally Blabby." You should have seen me at the SHOT Show.

    I told the same stories 100 times .

    I gave out 200 of my "Understanding Liberal Behavior" cards along with numerous explanations. I bent Chris Cox of the NRA-ILA's ear as well as his CoS and CA Reps ears for 30+ minutes talking about fighting CA's gun Laws and Democrat Tactics during the last election and the Cards were a big hit with them as well.

    For those who haven't seen one, these are business card sized ($9.95/500 at Vista Print) and say

    Understanding Liberal Behavior
    Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
    Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
    Rule #3 Liberals will lie about anything, no matter how insignificant.
    Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist.

    No argument from anyone on these points.

    We have to deal with these idiots here in CA all the time, It helps to let people know what they are looking at.

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 02-09-2019 at 01:12 AM.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  7. #87
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Okay then wordy I remain!

    I made up 10 more Brenneke'ized Lee slugs last night but 1 oz. this time... well, not quite made up but all drilled and ready for wads which I will add today.

    It looks like more talk and no shooting this weekend. We have -7 and 40 km/hr wind today and windy again tomorrow. The coast is getting pounded with 90 km/hr winds so we're not that bad.

    I'll be all loaded up and ready to go when the weather calms down. After this just plain cold won't be bad!

    Randy: I am a machine designer. I work for a local consulting company mostly service Teck Metals in Trail, B.C. Teck has the biggest lead/zinc smelting and refining complex in the world and the last remaining lead refinery in North America... or maybe one of two. I believe all primary lead refineries in the US have shut down but there was one other in Eastern Canada that was still running though I believe they **** down too.

    My background is custom materials handling equipment for the lead and zinc industries mostly. I have done work for power plants and pulp mills too.

    I design tricky little machines mostly: stackers, rotators, lifters, placers, whatever. I also do a lot of improvements to older designs which is what has been keeping me employed (more or less) for the last few years. Long story but I started out working for Cominco in Trail in 1981. I really enjoyed that, got laid off in big cuts in 1986 due to low seniority so moved up North for work for 3 years then back to Castlegar to work for CESL engineering (owned by Cominco). Cominco got bought by Teck, CESL shutdown and laid us all off, Simons hired us at reduced wages and benefits, AGRA bought Simons and reduced our benefits, AMEC bought AGRA and it happened again though AMEC was better than Simons or AGRA. I quite AMEC and went to work for Teck, quit Teck to go back to AMEC (they offered me huge money), AMEC laid me off in a downturn in 2013 due to massive budget cuts. I should have stuck it out at Teck but life was miserable.

    Oddly Teck has kept me more or less steadily employed since 2013 both as a Teck casual and through Redwood Engineering. I know the plants and systems and am one of the last "old guys" still working so I know what needs to be done and how to do it.

    I should be retired by next fall if I get working steady again shortly.

    So there it is in a nutshell.

    I'll post a range report after shooting these slugs... SOON!

    Longbow

  8. #88
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    We have so much in common! I am also a machine designer however my stuff is mostly Machine Shop stuff IE: Omniturn CNC Lathe, and automated machines for producing "Ultrasonic Bonding Tools" for the Semi Conductor industry., for Gaiser Tool Company, now Coors-Tek.

    That was all in the past and now I make parts for the RAM Missile System which is a shipboard defense system.

    Then there is my Reloading Press which has been a big hit here at Cast Boolits and elsewhere.

    This gun work we do is simply fun to fill in between jobs.

    Randy
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    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  9. #89
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Randy:

    I suspect your job is a lot more fun than mine! I do like solving problems and designing "a better mousetrap" to fix plant problems but over the years the reception has gone from being an in plant expert and being thanked for solving problems that have sometimes plagued the plant for 20 years or more to getting comments like "Why did it take so long and why did it cost so much?" when doing the same as a consultant.

    No appreciation for the innovation now. Maybe not quite true... the guy that has been giving me most of my workload for the last couple of years is good to work for but in general the attitude seems to be that engineering is a necessary evil that is to be avoided if possible.

    I get a lot of messes to fix up. I am looking forward to retirement at this point.

    Anyway, yes the reloading and shooting part is fun.

    Do you ever get to "pull the trigger" on that RAM Missile System? I think that could be a big stress reliever!

    I just finished assembly of 10 Brenneke'ized Lee 1 oz. slugs so now have both 7/8 oz. (weigh 440 grs. complete) and 1 oz. (yet to be weighed but about 60 grs. of added tail wad so about 500 grs. complete). I used 1 oz. load data for the 7/8 oz. slug and will likely use Lyman 525 gr. load data for the 1 oz. slug.

    Okay went and weighed them ~ 483 grs. and very consistent weight! I forgot... not quite 60 grs. of tail wad, there is a post added and slightly longer/thicker skirt on the 7/8 oz. slug due to change of core pin, Just the added post on the 1 oz. so not quite as heavy as I predicted.

    Pic:

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    Oh yeah and I used 2 layers of plastic disk on the bottom this time. I may see if I can find some thicker plastic for that bottom disk to make it stiffer. The 7/8 oz. are loaded so they go as they are.

    Mighta got out to the range tomorrow but had to deal with a hot water tank issue today and didn't get my range membership. Next week it is. I'll see if Ginsing wants to join me.

    Longbow
    Last edited by longbow; 02-09-2019 at 09:30 PM.

  10. #90
    Boolit Master Markopolo's Avatar
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    In your pic, is it an optical illusion? Or are those slugs leaning to one side?
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  11. #91
    Boolit Master
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    I think the shadows give that effect. Those slugs look awesome Kent, I just wonder if those sized Lee skirts are too thin now?
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  12. #92
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Markopolo:

    They look fine to me. I think maybe you've been into the Everclear a bit too much?

    My photography skills are a bit lacking... or maybe I was into the Everclear a bit too much? I make my own from sugar wash.

    Hal:

    These aren't sized just as cast. I made the sizer to remove taper which may or may not be a good thing. The wads I have don't have hardly any taper to the petals but my Lee slugs taper from 0.685" at the nose to 0.568" IIRC on the 7/8 oz. and a little more 0.672" I think on the 1 oz. They have about the same nose and skirt dimensions as the Lyman sabot slug. None of the wads I have show taper like that but Randy said his Federals match the Lyman slug perfectly, so should these then... but not Winchester, Pacific Verelite or Claybusters.

    I'd had some pretty good success with some straight sided home made slugs paper patched to good fit so decided to try the same with the Lee's. The plan was to take them down to remove all taper. That meant about 0.665" to 0.668". That was a no go! The slugs cracked during sizing. Just a bit too much squish. This was with straight ACWW so maybe they would have been okay at 50/60 or some softer alloy but I decided I would open up the sizer a bit so rebored to 0.670" and that was just enough. It didn't quite take all the taper out of the 7/8 oz. slug but did on the 1 oz. I can't understand why Lee wouldn't have put the same taper on both slugs. Since the 7/8 oz. is shorter then the nose should be small since it will slide further into same size wad... or make the skirt larger with same size nose and set it further up the wad. I can't imagine lighter payload wads have thicker petals with more taper than heavy payload wads.

    Since I punch them through from the base the sizing should actually thicken the skirt... if it didn't crack! But of course cracking during sizing is another whole issue. If the sized slug has little cracks or is on the verge it could fail in the bore or on impact. Not a big deal for targets but if hunting a guy doesn't wan't his slug fragment uncontrollably. And neither wants pieces flying out the muzzle! The sized slugs now appear to be okay but I'd have to do some shooting into wood and water or wet paper or something to see if they do break up too easily.

    So far I can't say I've seen a lot of difference in accuracy between sized then patch to fit straight Lee's over as cast. The as cast need one wrap of paper in a Winchester 1 1/4 oz. yellow wad for good fit.

    These and the 7/8 oz. modified I have loaded are as cast with one wrap of paper to snug them up then the attached wads. The attached wads are dense felt for under furniture legs (all I could find here) and disks punched from a kid's snow slider which is thin polyethylene. I made a punch to punch out 16 ga. wads which are 0.672" according so shotgun sites.

    I'd like thicker plastic disks/washers but limited access here. I was thinking that pop or water bottle caps may be thick enough but not sure of diameter for punching. Don't have any around right now. Hard leather might work too but a bit extravagant to shoot many. I have some hard heavy leather left over from my quiver making but it is a bit thick.

    So short question with long response.

    Longbow

  13. #93
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    Guys: Go here and play the video, it tells you everything you need to know.

    https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/ram

    I made all the Guide Door Latches (Front and Rear doors on the launch tube.)
    I made many of the doors on the Electronics Cabinet on the bottom of the Launch Tube, as well as numerous internal piece parts. I also made most of the parts for the loading hardware.

    Here's a pic of one of the best. It was machined out of a solid piece of 3" dia 316 SS! The kid who made this is good!!!

    My replacement A5 arrives Monday and then a 10 day wait to appease the turds in Sacramento.

    Randy
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    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 02-10-2019 at 03:23 PM.
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  14. #94
    Boolit Master
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    Sounds good to go LB! Those just might be winners, I never thought much of the big taper either. Can't wait till your weather breaks so you won't!
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  15. #95
    Boolit Grand Master

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    That does look nice Randy! Gotta love the military and especially US military for getting things done "right". I'm used to dealing with castings and fabrications to make widgets, not CNC machining out of solid. Many years ago I got assigned to do shop inspections for a project I was on and was in a CNC machine shop... nothing but CNC equipment making aircraft components. Everything was machined out of solid. The machine operator would take a block of aluminum (or whatever exotic alloy), lock it in the chuck or on the table, close the doors/shields, turn the machine on and walk away. The parts were all made pretty much automatically after that, possibly with a repositioning at some point. All parts were tagged then locked in cupboards after they were finished.

    I was in the EBCO shop in Richmond B.C. for inspection as well. It is a huge shop and is the biggest in Western Canada. While I was touring with the plant engineer a machinist called him over to a vertical boring machine that was facing a large flange about 5' diameter IIRC. He was saying he couldn't get any better surface finish so this would have to do (it looked like a mirror to me!). Turns out it was a part for a pump for a US navy aircraft carrier and made of some proprietary alloy so they had to collect and bag all the chips and send them back with the parts! Not sure why US navy parts were contracted to a Canadian outfit but I guess competitive bidding?

    Speaking of big shops, many years ago I was working on a project for a Tazmanian zinc plant and needed to get a 40' diameter ring beam machined. The only place i could find was a machine shop in an Oregon ship yard. "Yeah we can do that no problem." the nice man said... a 40' diameter ring beam! Big machine that one!

    It is nice to see the CNC machined components and what you can make out of solid these days. Just look at Mihec moulds for example. I doubt the finest gunsmith/mould maker could produce moulds to the precision that Mihec does... or NOE or Accurate and in those quantities. The precision and repeatability is amazing!

    Once a gain I digress.

    Hal: while I don't really like the taper, if these Brenneke'ized slugs work it shouldn't be an issue. The attached wads run 0.672" and so are very snug in wad and bore then the slug nose is also in contact so as long as it is all aligned when assembled it should be good. What I do like about the Lee slugs is being HB they should collapse before damaging a choke. Like I said, I am not sure what would happen if a hard cast Lee in wad hit a full choke but my guess is the slug would lose the fight. A hard cast bore size RB or solid slug... well, the choke might lose that conflict! Once day I'll test that out with an old cheap gun.

    Let's flash back to the Paradox guns ~ they ran 0.740" bore with rifled choke running down to 0.690". Being rifled not the whole slug gets squished to 0.690" but that's a lot of squish for a thin shotgun like barrel to withstand, yet they did.

    It warmed up to -4 C today! However, I have spent at least half the day tinkering with our water heater. The pilot light went out a few days ago and wouldn't stay lit. It would light up and the water heater run but when it finished out would go the pilot light. I took it apart yesterday and cleaned everything out but no better. Put a new thermocouple in today and all looked good then out the pilot light went! I restarted it and it seems okay now. We'll see. The only other thing I can see doing this is the thermal switch. If the new thermocouple doesn't fix it then I'll try the thermal switch. If that doesn't do it then I guess I call the plumber.

    So, even if I had planned to go to the range today it would have been kiboshed.

    Tomorrow I have to drive my wife to see a specialist in Penticton about 3 1/2 hours away so no shooting tomorrow!

    Next week or next weekend I'll git 'er done. I'll be calling Ginsing to see if he wants to hook up for a day of shooting.

    Longbow

  16. #96
    Boolit Mold
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    I just retired and reading LB's and Randy's posts have reminded me that my happy time working was in front of the computer working CAD software and interecting with the machine shop guys (and gals). I designed fixturing, little devices that kind of thing. The called me a Process Improvement Engineer. It amazes me how folks that should know better are allowed to design anything! Back to the good stuff. I have a Winchester 1300 that I reamed and cut threads for RemChoke tubes. Using a full choke tube a lot of slugs (mostly Foster type) have gone out that barrel with no damage that I can see. Switching to a Modified tube I can't see any accuracy difference between the two. I have been following this for awhile and can't wait for results. GO SPRING!!

  17. #97
    Boolit Master Markopolo's Avatar
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    Go Slugs!!! And come on March!!!
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  18. #98
    Boolit Man
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    I am yet another former machine designer. It is not a big surprise to see a lot of curious minds here. I suspect there are more than a few tool and die guys also. Not dissing any other honest occupations mind you as the world has a lot of needs to fill. I miss the work but not the stress and make up for the need for creativity by having too many hobbies and a small shop at home.

    Good luck with the slugs. When you get those quarter size groups I will be cranking up production with your recipe! ;^)

  19. #99
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Hahahaha! "Quarter size groups"! I wish! If I can keep slugs within 6" group sat 100 yards from a smoothbore I'll be happy. Any better than that is gravy!

    I would have sworn I read an article on Lyman Foster slug accuracy with claims of 4" group sat 100 yards many years ago. The only info I can find in my books though is a claim by Lyman that a good slug load using their Foster slug and load recipes is 4" groups at 50 yards. Well, I'm not sure if I failed of if that is shall I say optimistic on Lyman's part.

    I started out with a Lyman Foster slug mould and noted that it was a tad undersize casting at 0.705". So I though "How on earth could that be accurate?" and it wasn't! I used all components per several Lyman recipes and never got under about 8" at 50 yards! Well, not quite true... I paper patched slugs to fit the bore and groups closed up nicely but I did still get frequent fliers I attributed to damaged patches from opening the crimp or maybe not releasing properly.

    I get far better accuracy from good round ball moulds. In fact I get what Lyman claims their Foster will do at 50 yards which is 4" groups with good round ball loads. Sad that their slug using their load data won't... for me anyway.

    So far the best accuracy I have seen is using a couple of different brands of factory Fosters, Brenneke Classic slugs as a reloading component many, many years ago and most recently AQ slugs. I've gotten sub 6" groups at 100 yards with my Browning BPS with I/C slug barrel and Federal Fosters (not Tru-Ball) and AQ slugs. Been trying to reproduce those with home brewed slugs and loads but not there yet. Maybe the Brenneke'ized Lee's will do it?

    I'm liking some of the new Russian slugs moulds as well and after watching Taofledermaus testing the "fire Hydrant" Gualandi copy I was pretty impressed. I'd think all those attached tail wad slugs should give similar accuracy since the only real difference is the shape of the slugs.

    Have you seen BigMrTong'ss Lee slugs with 3D printed tail wads? He's been doing well with those.

    I've tried similar using hot melt glue tail wads cast on in a form and my Lee slug accuracy improved but using hot melt glue is a bit tedious and it is hard to get really consistent tail wads mostly due to bubbles in the glue.

    I will hopefully be testing these out next weekend which is becoming a theme! I keep saying next weekend but our weather is not behaving at all! We've gotten lots of late snow and quite cold as well. it is n't so much the cold or snow that bothers me except to get to our range I have to climb a rather steep hill about 100 yards or better long packing my stuff and in 2' of snow... that part I don't like! Winter should be done soon though. So I am hoping weather is decent next weekend so I can get some shooting done.

    "Quarter size groups" Hahahaha! Yeah, we'll see!

    Longbow

  20. #100
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    Power of Positive Thinking!!!
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check