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Thread: Reloading 9mm is confusing...

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Understand a hollow-point is a FMJ with the nose cut-off and cannot be seated to the same OAL as a FMJ
    It's the bullet ogive:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon813gt View Post
    You’d think the groove diameters would all be the same as well. But this isn’t the case and they typically range from .355(less common) to .358(more common). If there’s one thing manufacturers do well it’s make everything different from the competitor.
    Yessir--and this goes double for the 9mm Luger. EVERY component, every pistol, and dimensions of those elements can differ in this caliber. Consistency? C'MON, MANG--in 9mm, that is the last refuge of the unimaginative. Make haste slowly, if you are new to the 9mm refilling game.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    For 147 grain Hornady XTP's your OAL should be 1.080 as that is how they are from the factory. I loaded plenty of them up with 3.4 grains of Universal. I couldn't tell the difference between factory and my hand loads when shooting. Recoil was the same and groupings were the same.
    This was out of an M&P 2.0 Compact, same size gun as a Glock 19.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    Assuming that a loaded to spec cartridge will automatically fit and work is the 1st mistake

    Not loading some dummy rounds to check is the 2nd mistake

    Loading a bunch up and not checking to make sure that you don't make mistake #1 and #2 is going to equal mistake #3

  5. #25
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    Why does everyone piss & moan over loading the
    9X19 ?
    It ain't Rocket Science.

    I've been using same load My DAD figured out in the mid-1950's.

    120-125gr TC or Long RN (.356-Linoytpe) over a Max charge of BULLSEYE.

    Plunk test is MANDATORY.

    And back in those dark ages, there were no Taper Crimp or FCD.

    If it fit in the magazine and went plunk we shot it.

    I still load the same way.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

    SASS #375 Life

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    120-125gr TC or Long RN (.356-Linoytpe) over a Max charge of BULLSEYE.
    Most people do not load Linotype. It’s cost prohibitive these days. And even cast out of Lino if I sized to .356 there’s a very good chance it would lead. At a minimum it would be inaccurate.

    I agree that it isn’t rocket science to reload 9mm. Especially w/ jacketed. But due to varying chamber and barrel dimensions it causes problems when using cast bullets. Fit is king like always.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Rocket science no, one of the trickier pistol cartridges IMO yes.

    As stated above so eloquently, expect consistency and you will be disappointed.

    You need to approach this on a gun by gun basis. Trying to take shortcuts will get you stuck in the weeds.

    Start with a chamber or pound cast so you know what you are dealing with.

    IF you are both good and lucky you may find a load that makes 3 out of 4 9mm's happy. Don't ever expect 4 out of 4.

    Don't forget that 9mm is a high pressure round compared to most pistols. This puts more pressure on alloy, lube choices.

    There are a LOT of variables, tackle them systematically, one by one, fit first.
    Once the boolit is big enough, no keyholing, shotgun patterns move on to the next.

    ENJOY the journey. Travel was/is Travail, "engage in painful or laborious effort". In short, it sucked. The 9mm road can be a rough one, but it can be mastered. Try to enjoy it, it can also teach you a LOT. I know it taught me much. Once this one is mastered it makes other roads seem easy. Lessons learned are IMO good ones.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master


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    Well, Dragon,

    I guess I don't know anything. 60yrs with the same load is not enough experience for you.

    I'm not going to waste time listing the pistols this load has gone through.

    The trouble with most of you folks is you're always trying to reinvent the wheel. You can't be bothered to look back to what other people have experienced. You have so much technology available to you that you have no appreciation or respect for those you have gone before you. Choosing instead to belittle them as old no-nothings.

    If the load leaded bbl's ? Do ya think I'd still be shooting it ?
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

    SASS #375 Life

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master

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    No one said you don’t know anything or belittled you. Don’t take things so personal. What you posted has not worked for me. I’ve tried sized to .356. It lead to a leaded barrel. And as I pointed out most people aren’t using Linotype. They’re using softer lead which will lead a barrel faster. What works for one person may not work for another.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master

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    So can we get back to the topic and not about you? Of course everyone is going to have different experiences. But you can go to any number of gun forums and you will see threads about leading a 9mm w/ commercial cast sized to .356. The “surprise” solution is to buy them sized to .357. Seeing as how most 9mm bores are .357+ it’s easy to see why.

    You’re talking about people here not wanting to accept other ideas. It seems you’re in the same boat because you don’t want to accept what others have experienced. I’m not telling anyone not to follow what you posted. I commented w/ my direct experience. You can get away w/ undersized bullets w/ Linotype more than you can w/ commercial hardball or the common COWW alloys that most people use now. If someone doesn’t want to believe me then they’re free to try whatever they want.

  11. #31
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    I will take a "soft" lead alloy with PC
    Every single day
    .357" or .358" or whatever
    I don't understand why not listen

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    OAL's don't mean much, it's a fools errand to try to load 9mm's to a specific oal like I like to try to load all my 9mm's to +/- 1.140" oal. They list a oal and a load with pressure, that's all the oal is good for knowing the pressure of a load with that specific oal.


    The latest bullets I've been playing with in the 9mm, a 110gr cramer & a custom mihec 135gr.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Those 2 bullets will not even be close on the oal's. Where the game's won or lost with the 9mm or any semi-auto pistol, namely the amount of the bullets shoulder above the rim of the case. I've showed this picture before, it has a line for the bullets base. But it also shows where the shoulder of the bullets sit compared to the rim/top of the case.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    When you do a plunk test you are testing where that shoulder is at in the case/chamber. I typically never load anything to the max oal/plunk test (best accuracy). Instead I set the oal 10/1000th's to 15/1000th's below "max accuracy". I have yet to find a 9mm or 45acp that will not chamber/fire a reload by setting the oal this way.

    FWIW:
    The crimp on a 9mm reload is way more important that setting the oal to "max accuracy" via the plunk test when it comes to accuracy.

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy Lagamor's Avatar
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    Don’t get discouraged. I bought some a couple of Mihec molds and had a hell of a time getting good loads worked up for my CZ. I eventually worked out most of my gremlins.
    I wish I had known how difficult the 9 mm Lugar could be before I took the plunge. I had only casted for the Makarov before and that was a piece of cake.

  14. #34

  15. #35
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    I have absolutely no interest in shooting cast in 9mm. Heck, it's barely feasible to reload for it.
    It would be like drying out paper towels. I'm not that cheap. I can buy JHPs for ten cents a round. Lead costs nearly as much around here.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    I have absolutely no interest in shooting cast in 9mm. Heck, it's barely feasible to reload for it.
    It would be like drying out paper towels. I'm not that cheap. I can buy JHPs for ten cents a round. Lead costs nearly as much around here.
    I started reloading 9mm because I couldn’t get any accuracy out of factory ammo. My gun wanted fatter bullets which were not available. It was a bit of a learning curve, but not too bad. Now my gun shoots very accurately, with no leading, and no problems. Some guns are easier than others.
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    I started loading for 9x19 when I bought my Hi Point C9 (see my other post today in Humor and off topic). I approached reloading like I usually do; looked up a load in the book that matched my available powder and bullets. I had on hand Red Dot and commercial hard-cast 122 gr bullets. I have no idea what the C.O.L is, but I seated them to just cover the top lube groove. They fit and function fine, and I can't think of a reason to change anything. Point of impact is just about point of aim at seven yards. Works for me.

    Wayne
    What doesn't kill you makes you stronger - or else it gives you a bad rash.
    Venison is free-range, organic, non-GMO and gluten-free

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    If you get yourself a new storm lake barrel for that g19 you will never regret it

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmbif View Post
    If you get yourself a new storm lake barrel for that g19 you will never regret it
    Ironic that you say that...

    I have one and it is garbage.

    I bought it for my Gen 4 G19 when I wasn't happy with the groups with the stock barrel.

    Installed it and the groups got larger across the board. I emailed Storm Lake and they said they don't guarantee accuracy.

    From what I've heard, they were bought out a few years ago by some infamous company that is buying up gun-related companies and running them into the ground.

    Love my KKM barrel, but will never buy another Storm Lake barrel.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    I have absolutely no interest in shooting cast in 9mm. Heck, it's barely feasible to reload for it.
    It would be like drying out paper towels. I'm not that cheap. I can buy JHPs for ten cents a round. Lead costs nearly as much around here.
    It doesn't matter if you reload jacketed, plated, cast, coated, swaged bullets in the 9mm. The shoulder/full bullet diameter of the body mandates the oal of that bullet. 1000 different bullets that have 1000 different body lengths will have 1000 different oal's.

    Myself, I love shooting cast in the 9mm's. Started reloading 9mm's back in the 90's. We'd fit 6" 9mm bbl.'s to our 1911 38super race guns & fill the mags with hot loads pushing the 158gr lyman 358311 rn bullets. Between the 6" bbl and the higher velocities of the cast/lead bullet vs jacketed. Those heavy 9mm reloads were not only accurate & extremely easy to control, they were thumpers. I still prefer cast bullets over jacketed bullets in the short bbl'd 9mm's. Cast/coated bullets have higher velocities than their jacketed counterparts. While the velocity difference doesn't mean much in longer bbl'd firearms. It makes enough difference in short bbl'd firearms to turn a good load into a great load.


    Glad you can buy your jacketed bullets for $.10 apiece. That's good to know if I ever run out of my stock plie of lead and don't have the ability to get free lead. As it stands right now it costs $.04 a round/$2 a box of 50/$40 per 1000 rounds for me to reload cheap blammo ammo for the 9mm's. I've thinned the herd on molds & am down to 4 molds for the 9mm's. Old habits are hard to break, still prefer the 1911/9mm combo. I reload/shoot 1000's of the mihec 125gr bullets I cast for the 9mm's in that 1911 every year. My 1911 with the $.04 a round dirt clod killers.
    [IMG][/IMG]


    Don't know why you're having a hard time finding accurate loads with jacketed bullets in the 9mm's. That $.04 a round blammo ammo pictured above made from free lead/cast bullets & free mixed range brass managed to do 10-shot groups like these @ 50ft with nothing more that 1100fps/25,000psi plinking load.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    One of these days I'm going to have to buy some quality brass & quality jacketed bullets, toss that 1911 in a ransom rest & really see what it can do. Should be able to cut those groups in 1/2 with jacketed bullets and using a mechanical rest.

    Good luck with your 9mm reloads. Between the 2 bbl's I'm sure you'll come up with something you can live with.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check