44 Magnum lever guns: 1:38 Twist - WHY?

[Pioneer2]

A 1-20 twist would be more useful in everything .44 using heavier bullets including the .444 I have a 1-28 in my 44-40 /1892 Win[barrel replaced] and it shoots a lot better than a plate at 100 yards pistol cartridge or not.Shoots 220gr GC just fine.The Browning 92 has shallow rifling and the wrong twist as well compounded by poor sights.

[Nobade]

I'm with the diameter believers. My Browning 92 and Marlin 1894 are both miserable with .430" bullets. But load them with .433" ones, especially if they are paper patched, at full pressure and they are incredibly accurate. Palm sized groups at 200m are no problem, and likely could be better if they had better sights. It's not the twist rate, it is the same as every other gun shooting cast bullets. The ammo has to fit the barrel or it won't work.

[Pioneer2]

A 1-20 will shoot all bullet weights up to 300gr so is more versatile and yes proper dia is a must.

[Remmy4477]

My 1894S with ballard rifling has a 1 in 20 twist.
Likes the lyman 429421 at .431.
2 to 3 inch groups at 100 meters, I am happy with that.
Actually this is the second rifle I've owned where the first load that I put together worked right from the start. I like it when that happens.


I have this same debate with the newer 44wcf rifles only regarding bore diameters, .430-.431 bores, why?

[MyFlatline]

My shorty does just fine with micro groove. Size at .431 then powdercoat.

[45-70marlin]

Older thread I started about this. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...mag-1-38-twist

[farmbif]

I’ve always sized 44’s at .432 in pistol, old Rossi puma lever and 444 marlin.
Never had leading problems lubed with caranuba red
They’re not precision rifles but sure are a lot of fun

[waco]

Fix the headspace between the ears and tighten the nut behind the buttplate.

This is too funny Ed. I might have to use this!

[Outpost75]

Fix the headspace between the ears and tighten the nut behind the buttplate.

This is too funny Ed. I might have to use this!

I stole it from Frank Marshall, but he's buried at Arlington and won't mind if you use it.

[Groo]

Groo here
Its all about RPM...
A bullet needs a minimum rpm to not wobble.[due to length/weight]
To get this ,you need a specific speed from any given twist barrel...
A good load for a .43 cal 300 gr bullet from a handgun will be 1000fps.
The rpms from a 1/20 barrel will be 36000 rpm.
Put this in a rifle with a twist of 1/38 and you need 1900fps. [long time doing math!!]
If you want to slow down you need a shorter/lighter bullet.
Ps . this is just a math example as I don't know the REAL speed/rpm to stablize the bullet...
PPS If you spin a bullet too fast it can come apart

[salvadore]

Char gar is wrong, I haven't bought a marlin .44 because of the slow twist and they haven't changed it. I'm beginning to suspect that "happy as a clam at high tide" comment too.

[HangFireW8]

I don't see any reason to call Char gar "wrong" or doubt his word. His rifle meets his expectations. Others want something different. Neither are wrong, nor should we expect others to be unhappy because Remlin doesn't make it the way we want it!

[winelover]

Marlin 1894 Lever @ 100 yards, 5 shots in 1 3/8 inches.................it can be done. Just need to work at it. Accurate 210 grain RNFP (GC) sized .433, Carnuba Red lube. Starline brass, neck sized using RCBS Cowboy dies.

Winelover

[alamogunr]

Marlin 1894 Lever @ 100 yards, 5 shots in 1 3/8 inches.................it can be done. Just need to work at it. Accurate 210 grain RNFP (GC) sized .433, Carnuba Red lube. Starline brass, neck sized using RCBS Cowboy dies.

Winelover

Which Accurate Mold in particular? He lists several that conceivably could match that description.

No guarantee that it would work as well in my Browning but might be a place to start if none of my present molds work.

[salvadore]

Rent a sense of humor hangfire, it was a joke.

[winelover]

Which Accurate Mold in particular? He lists several that conceivably could match that description.

I had Tom cut a 4 cavity, two of each design, of the 43-210E and the 43-210EG.............the EG is the gas checked version of the same design.

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=43-210E-D.png

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...43-210EG-D.png


I use the plain base for revolvers and the gas check bullet for the Marlin carbine. The mould/bullet selection is only a small part of the equation. I shrunk the groups by more than half, by neck sizing my brass with RCBS Cowboy sizer and expanding with the included expander. Their expander is designed for cast, as is the Lyman M die.

Winelover

[DougGuy]

This thread, sums up the EXACT reason(s) that I have put off buying a levergun to shoot cast boolits. I have followed the various levergun vs. twist vs. groove diameter vs. boolit size posts for several years. Forum wide, there are easily 10x to 20x more individual posts outlining poor performance with the slow twist for every one post detailing success.

I commented on a recent thread saying that the Chiappa was the only 1:20 that I knew of, and was corrected by a reply saying the Winnie was also 1:20 but I have not read or seen this to confirm.

I think we need a twist rate chart and would be helpful if that chart had groove diameters in association with brands/model numbers of known rifles.

And of course, the boolit MUST be a good fit in the bore, it would seem that for a combo to work at it's best, you would size to get the best accuracy from the rifle, then size the revolver cylinder throats to use the same loads..

[Nobade]

The problem with that is 44 rifles use bigger barrels than 44 revolvers do. Unless you load them with black powder and soft lead bullets to allow bump up, the same load will never be ideal in both guns. If you want to do that, a 357 or 45 is way easier to get to work well.

[Chill Wills]

Marlin 1894 Lever @ 100 yards, 5 shots in 1 3/8 inches.................it can be done. Just need to work at it. Accurate 210 grain RNFP (GC) sized .433, Carnuba Red lube. Starline brass, neck sized using RCBS Cowboy dies.

Winelover

That is an incredibly good group for any lever rifle at 100 yards. However, you should have a talk with the guy that stapled that target up in the wrong spot - too far to the right.

[DougGuy]

That is an incredibly good group for any lever rifle at 100 yards. However, you should have a talk with the guy that stapled that target up in the wrong spot - too far to the right.

Dang man my sides are hurtin' just had surgery and ya killin' me!