.223 vs .243 vs .270

[BHuij]

Hey guys—

I wanted to buy a bolt gun that I could feed for cheap, mostly just for paper punching and target practice, and that means finding one that can shoot cast well. I really just want something that can shoot out to about 300 yards max. I’m already set up to cast and load .223, so after a lot of research I decided to go for a Ruger 783 chambered in .223.

I’m keeping my eye out for a deal, and keep finding brand new 783s with included cheap 3-9x40 scopes for under $300, but the least expensive ones are always chambered in either .243 or .270.

Has anyone shot .243 or .270 with cast bullets? How close could you get to jacketed velocities with cast before you lost accuracy?

.270 would be significantly more expensive for practicing than .223, but it could get out to longer ranges and resist wind better. .243 would probably have fairly similar performance in cast compared to .223, and only be a bit more expensive to reload.

Should I hold out for a .223? Biggest advantages are that it’s cheapest to load, and I’m already tooled (and have tons of brass).

[Tatume]

You should get what you want. If you are getting good results with 223 cast, that is an accomplishment in itself.

[fightthenoise]

Do you mean Remington 783? Also, have you looked at Ruger Americans? I just bought a .223 Tikka for the same purpose as you. I was dead set on .223 for the same reasons. Cheap, no recoil, lots of trigger time, had a boat load of components. I’d hold on for .223 in whatever rifle you choose. I think if you got a .243 after awhile you’d start thinking “I could shoot for cheaper with a .223” and before you know it you’d own both


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[LUCKYDAWG13]

I'm going to get the ruger American
The one that uses the AR mag
For the Same reason I would rather hold off till I found a 223

[BHuij]

Yeah, you guys make good points. For my intended purpose, .243 and .270 don't get me enough advantage over .223 to justify the extra CPR.

I have looked at Ruger Americans, but they're significantly more expensive than Remington 783s, and the 783 does everything I want it to.

[sundog]

Does it have to be .223? A .222 Rem would fit your purpose real good.

[popper]

You have been trying this for a year or more. I suggest you get a 30 cal or larger. They will go to 300 without problem. 223, 243 & 270 (huge case - lots of problems there) - they all like to be run FAST. Download a free copy of gebc.exe and run it for several bullets of different size, weight, BC and fps. Look at the trajectory at long range. Compare with NORMAL loading of jax bullets in the small calibers. Study BC and what effect it has, what BC you can get from cast boolits. Don't expect much of anything over 0.3! Then get a 308W, a mould and go have fun. Lots of people trying to invent a better wheel, nobody succeeded yet.

[BHuij]

Popper, I'm enjoying the process, and don't see the point in giving up to go to an easier caliber. FYI, I do have a 30 cal and I do shoot cast through it. Having fun already

[RKJ]

Have you looked at the 700 ADL's at Walmart? I picked up a 223 and a 308 for $389.00 before taxes. They are both good shooters (at least as good as I am capable) They are blind magazine rifles but I can live with that. I like them both very much. The 223 shoots pretty good with either a 55 or 75 cast PC'd but I decided to go back to jacketed as those PC'd bullets were just too slippery.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

what do you think about this rifle https://www.cabelas.com/product/SAVA...4.uts?slotId=0

[dverna]

Popper gave you good advice. But if you are determined to try a bolt gun, consider a T/C Compass. Although mine is in .308, it has been excellent. I have put 6 loads through it and none were over 2”, with one at .25”. I paid $225 after rebate.

[dverna]

Have you looked at the 700 ADL's at Walmart? I picked up a 223 and a 308 for $389.00 before taxes. They are both good shooters (at least as good as I am capable) They are blind magazine rifles but I can live with that. I like them both very much. The 223 shoots pretty good with either a 55 or 75 cast PC'd but I decided to go back to jacketed as those PC'd bullets were just too slippery.

It would be more enlightening if “pretty good” could be quantified....5 shots at 2 MOA? 3 MOA?

And what happens with a “slippery” bullet that makes reverting to jacketed bullets attractive.

[Texas by God]

I've heard the 270 runs well with cast and people will GIVE you brass. A funny thing I noticed during the last panic was .270 Win ammo in stock pretty much everywhere. Dies are cheap, too. Just my .02; I don't own a .270 presently.

[BHuij]

Did some reading on the T/C Compass. Price is attractive and so far I think the 5R rifling seems great. It doesn’t come with a scope, but by all accounts the scope on the Rem 783 is something I’d want to replace pretty quickly anyway.

[dverna]

Did some reading on the T/C Compass. Price is attractive and so far I think the 5R rifling seems great. It doesn’t come with a scope, but by all accounts the scope on the Rem 783 is something I’d want to replace pretty quickly anyway.

The scope is not very good. But if all you do is punch paper and you do not drop the gun it should do for a while. I would recommend not considering the scope in your decision if you can afford to. Scopes are easy to replace if/when needed. An accurate gun is a pleasure to have, and an inaccurate gun is a *****.

BTW, my buddy knows the gun who handles gun sales at our Walmart. My buddy was all set to get the 783, and the guy at Walmart told him so save for something better.

[BHuij]

Interesting. Did he say why? I realize the 783 is not designed to be a high-end rifle, but all the research I've done indicates it can do 1 MOA or better out of the box. Seems like between that and the T/C either one would do what I want nicely. Should probably see if I can rent both of them at a range somewhere and decide firsthand which feels better for me before buying since the price is basically sixes, but at this point I'd take either one.

[charlie b]

Many of the modern rifles will do MOA or better out of the box. My Savage Axis was a nice surprise for me. Cheap and close to .5 MOA with good loads. It came with a cheap Bushnell scope that did fine for paper targets (what I shoot). It was such a nice rifle the next one I got was a more expensive Savage.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

PS the only drawback I found to the Axis was the bolt. It is not a smooth one unless you practice the right movement.

PPS if you are good at cast bullets in .223 either of the other calibers will be easy with cast.

[Texas by God]

The 783 is Remington's uglification of the nice Marlin XL7 which is a beautification of the Savage 110. All the cheap ones shoot good -even the despised & discontinued good selling Remington 710/770.

[BHuij]

Yeah the 783 is actually supposed to be a "fixed" version of the 710 and 770 where they improved on the parts people complained about most, from what I understand.

I've looked at the Savage Axis since it was in the same price range. Not only was I told that it happens to specifically have a hard time with cast bullets in .223 (may just have been one person's bad experience), but it also seems to have a crappier stock than the Remington or the T/C. If it was significantly less expensive I'd consider it anyway, but it seems to be the weak link out of the three.

[Ianagos]

I’ll throw my suggestion out there gave you checked out a howa 1500? They can be found for around $350. Very high quality rifles and if you look for deals online even cheaper than I just stated.