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Thread: Need Advice Loading for M71 & M71/84

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    9

    Need Advice Loading for M71 & M71/84

    Hi All,

    I was lucky to have acquired an M71 and M71/84 many years ago and started loading for the 71/84 using Pyrodex. My interests turned elsewhere and these rifles have sat unused for quite some time. However, recently while looking back in my reloading supply stockpile for some primers, I discovered I had an unopened 8lb jug of XMP5744 back there. I have no clue where I got it but from what I've read online, its a good powder for BPCR rifles. So I thought I'd try using it for my M71 & M71/84 and get them shooting again.

    For the M71/84, I have the Lyman 446110 (340gr) mold and I recall that shot pretty well using the Pyrodex. However, I never got around to buying a mold for the M71. Looking in my pile of molds I see that I have a Lee 457-500-F as well as the Lee 452-230 RN and 452-230 TC for my .45's. Any thought on whether the bullets from any of these molds would work if I size to .452? My initial thought is that the 500 gr seems a little heavy and the 230gr's seem a little light.

    The other alternative I guess would be to paper patch the 446 although its been years since I did any paper patching. I like to tumble lube so I'm guessing I would paper patch first then tumble lube?

    Anyway, I would appreciate any thoughts, insight or 5744 load data from the experts.

    thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Nov 2013
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    Corvallis Oregon
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    I'm sure you know to slug the bore of the 71 they can be some what different from one rifle to another. My 71/84 shot so well using black and the 446 mold I didn't try anything else but that was before 5744 powder was around. I have used 5744 in a 45-120 Sharps and am very happy with the results.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Reverend Al's Avatar
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    Tough to find unless you have a "stash" of it that you put away when it was discontinued (like me), but my old 71/84 repeater shoots that Lyman boolit extremely well with SR4759. Hopefully the 5744 will give you similar results.
    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Welcome back to the forum. We like pics a lot here, especially old guns!
    Last edited by Texas by God; 12-08-2018 at 01:43 AM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Last edited by StrawHat; 12-07-2018 at 10:51 PM.
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

    Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Seems to me the bullet may be the same for the 71 as for the 71/84?
    beltfed/arnie

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    Many thanks for the links. These are two sources I hadn't previously found.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Dec 2013
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    St.Germain, WI
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    The Lyman 446110 is the correct mold for both rifles. Mine cast a little over size and are then sized to .446. The only difference between the rifles is that the 71/84 is magazine fed. They both shoot the same caliber. My load is 20 gr. 5744 with a Dacron wad and the 446110 cast out of 50/50 Pb/WW. When I used to use 24 gr. I found out that 5744 is temp. sensitive. Went to a match where it was 97 degrees and was leveling primers. Was going to use the rifle for deer hunting this year and in the 20 degree temps, I could was up to 29 gr. and still not have any pressure signs. Will also be working on a 4895 load per Larry G.
    The only amendment the Democrats support is the 5th.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    141
    Jeff,
    Try that hoard of 4759 in that 71/84
    beltfed/arnie

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    9

    My M71 is a little larger

    Slugged the bores of my rifles and the M71/84 mik's out to .446 while my M71 is a .452. So I think I may try some .45 bullets for the M71 if they'll chamber.

    I only have 20 pieces of Bertram brass from a long time ago and went into sticker shock when I saw how much they cost now! So, I decided to see if I could form some. From my range pickup scrap bin I found I have some 300 mag brass and went about using them as the base. The big issues were: (1) extraction since the rims are too narrow and (2) headspace since the rims are too thin. So, based on some older threads I found, I tried a few different solutions and ended up with using some 14 gauge solid copper wire in the groove of the 300 mag brass. I tried 16 gauge but it was too thin and wouldn't extract reliably from the 71/84. The 14 gauge is a little too thick so after forming a circle that fit in the groove, I carefully took it off and thinned the top and bottom with the little sanding drum in my dremel. I actually tried to epoxy the rings on to the brass but it didn't take. However after playing around with it for a while, I'm finding that the wire is stiff enough that I don't think it'll slip. Time will tell. The two sample pieces I made up now extract reliably in both rifles and fit in my Lee shellholder just like the Bertram brass that I have. Not sure if I'll have time before the holidays, but I'll load these two pieces up and take them to the range and see how they work out.

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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Space Coast, FL
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    Huntington has it on sale for $63 if that makes it any easier to swallow. Years ago I purchased two boxes and have not touched but hopefully one day! I have also read over the years about neck splits on first fire (Bertram), thinking is I will be inclined to torch the necks before first load. I also was gifted a pile of converted .348 brass, read up on that and you may find spending the money while painful may be the best path.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Sep 2006
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    Graf's has 348 Win Hornady brass for $42.78/20
    beltfed/arnie

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've used both .348 and .45-90 to make .43 Mauser, and .45-90 is my preferred choice. Both of them require the rim relief and the only way I could get the .348 to work was to turn the OD near the base.

    beltfed. Will see you at LGC on the 1st. I'll bring my M78 Swiss for your inspection.
    The only amendment the Democrats support is the 5th.

  14. #14
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
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    Location
    ,Canada
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    I have shot both rifle types a lot. The bore diameter is always the same on the 71s as on the 71/84s. However the groove depth is much deeper on the Model 71s. I believe the 71s were originally loaded with paper patched soft lead bullets and obviously black powder. Using smokeless,4198 I have had good success with .446 in the 71/84 but poor results in the Model 71s. following the trail that others have blazed I opened up the chamber necks with a 45 Colt reamer first and later bought a custom reamer to allow seating and shooting of .452 bullets. I just neck size and load with my 45 Colt dies. I headspace on the shoulder just like any other bottle neck case. Again following other peoples footsteps and being fortunate enough to have a metal lath I have found that " magnum" brass ,particularly 458 Win mag makes excellent brass for the 43 Mauser. Remove just the belt,aneal the necks and size ,trim etc,fire form. I have also used 7mm and 300 Win Mag brass but even careful prep makes for a fairly high failure rate during forming because of the big neck dimension change. Surprisingly 7mm was no worse for failure than the 300. This reformed brass works fine in the single shot Model 71 because it has a large extractor with no ejector and it will pull out the empties . It is of no use in the 71/84s as they cannot control the brass with their different extractor and ejector set up.
    Using a 71/84 barrel I fitted to a Remington 700 Magnum bolt face action I now use this reformed brass to create a "11mm Mauser Rimless" rifle. Older eyes really like a scope. I had a target profile bullet mold made up for me by Boomers Moulds in Canada . It specs out at about 425 grains with
    Lube. It shoots well.

  15. #15
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    ,Canada
    Posts
    98

    Loading 43 Mauser

    I have shot both rifle types a lot. The bore diameter is always the same on the 71s as on the 71/84s. However the groove depth is much deeper on the Model 71s. I believe the 71s were originally loaded with paper patched soft lead bullets and obviously black powder. Using smokeless,4198 I have had good success with .446 in the 71/84 but poor results in the Model 71s. For the Model 71s following the trail that others have blazed I opened up the chamber necks with a 45 Colt reamer first and later bought a custom reamer to allow seating and shooting of .452 bullets. I just neck size and load with my 45 Colt dies. I headspace on the shoulder just like any other bottle neck case. Again following other peoples footsteps and being fortunate enough to have a metal lath I have found that " magnum" brass ,particularly 458 Win mag makes excellent brass for the 43 Mauser. Remove just the belt,aneal the necks and size ,trim etc,fire form. I have also used 7mm and 300 Win Mag brass but even careful prep makes for a fairly high failure rate during forming because of the big neck dimension change. Surprisingly 7mm was no worse for failure than the 300. This reformed brass works fine in the single shot Model 71 because it has a large extractor with no ejector and it will pull out the empties . It is of no use in the 71/84s as they cannot control the brass with their different extractor and ejector set up.
    Using a 71/84 barrel I fitted to a Remington 700 Magnum bolt face action I now use this reformed brass to create a "11mm Mauser Rimless" rifle. Older eyes really like a scope. I had a target profile bullet mold made up for me by Boomers Moulds in Canada . It specs out at about 425 grains with
    Lube. It shoots well.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check