44 Mag brass VS. 444 Marlin Brass ?

[hylander]

Question:
Is 444 brass close enough in dimensions to 44 mag brass, just longer ?
Or how about 445 Super Mag brass cut down ?

I ask because H&R rifle barrels in 44 mag are very long throated, so the bullet has to jump way to far for best accuracy.
My thought is to cut down 444 brass to proper length for the 44 mag.
Thoughts ?

[Walks]

Well,
the rim is a bit thicker, they use a different shell holder. The case dimensions ahead of the rim are a bit different too.
Might have to turn down part of the case and reduce the rim thickness.


Blasted auto-correct.

[lar45]

Why not rechamber to 445 SM, then you wouldn't have to turn the rims and base down if you went with the 444 brass.

[hylander]

Why not rechamber to 445 SM, then you wouldn't have to turn the rims and base down if you went with the 444 brass.

This might be a good option.
Would you know where to buy or rent a reamer ?

[nicholst55]

This might be a good option.
Would you know where to buy or rent a reamer ?

4D Reamer Rentals or Elk Ridge.

[EDG]

If your chamber is longer .445 SM brass can be cut to fit.
If only the throat is longer you need to cut the chamber deeper.

But before you cut cut anything you need to try seating out the bullets. In your single shot you are not restricted to loading to SAAMI overall length.

[hylander]

If your chamber is longer .445 SM brass can be cut to fit.
If only the throat is longer you need to cut the chamber deeper.

But before you cut cut anything you need to try seating out the bullets. In your single shot you are not restricted to loading to SAAMI overall length.

That's the problem is the bullets are seated to far out of the case.
Seated .100 before the crimp groove

[EDG]

Yeah but why?
Is the chamber longer or just the throat?
Does it really affect accuracy?

.444 brass measures .464 diameter just in front of the rim.
.44 Mag. brass measures .450.
.445 Super Mag brass is the same diameter as .44 Mag brass but is longer. Starline's web site lists the length of .445 brass.

That's the problem is the bullets are seated to far out of the case.
Seated .100 before the crimp groove

[lar45]

http://www.reamerrentals.com/Product...Code=445SM%2Ef
https://4drentals.com/product/445-super-mag/

[hylander]

Why? what ?
Not sure if chamber or just throat, will try to figure it out in the next couple of days.
Yes, accuracy with bullets seated to proper length is bad.

Yeah but why?
Is the chamber longer or just the throat?
Does it really affect accuracy?

.444 brass measures .464 diameter just in front of the rim.
.44 Mag. brass measures .450.
.445 Super Mag brass is the same diameter as .44 Mag brass but is longer. Starline's web site lists the length of .445 brass.

[EDG]

You need to check a number of things to find the cause of the accuracy problem.
1. Slug the bore for size to make sure it is not oversize.
2. Make sure there are no tight or loose spots in the bote by pushing several soft cast bullets all the way through.
3. Check the rate of twist and make sure your bullets are not tool long.
4. Check the muzzle for damage.
5. Test it with jacketed bullets to see if they are accurate.
6. Make sure you do not have a fundamental problem like loose scope mounts or a bad scope.
7. Make sure the action locks up properly.
You can ruin your gun if you fix the wrong thing.

Why? what ?
Not sure if chamber or just throat, will try to figure it out in the next couple of days.
Yes, accuracy with bullets seated to proper length is bad.

[high standard 40]

I once had a 44 Mag H&R rifle that I purchased new. Accuracy with cast bullets was horrible. I slugged the barrel and discovered the issue. My rifle had a bore that was .434" and my mold would not drop a bullet anywhere near that big. I called the factory and talked with a tech about this flaw, thinking that I could get my barrel replaced with one of proper diameter, either .429" or .430". The H&R tech told me that my barrel was within specifications. According to him their manufacturing tolerances for barrels is .430" plus or minus .004". Can anybody fathom a manufacturing tolerance for a barrel with an .008" spread? I found a new home for that rifle and swore off of any future H&R rifles. Good luck in your quest.

[bobthenailer]

I once tried FL size a fired 444 marlin brass in a carbide 44 mag sizer die I cracked the carbide sizer ring in the die ,RCBS replaced it for free ! Thanks RCBS!!

IF you only partial sized the case and stay away from the larger bottom web area of the case it may work as long as it will chamber

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Unless you are using the reloads in several firearms (revolvers, magazine fed rifles) you can load to any length and not crimp at all, crimp grooves are only important if a crimp is required (revolvers, tube feed rifles, very hard kicking rifles). The only length requirement for any cartridge is that it functions in the firearm using it. A single shot is only limited by the chamber and throat for cartridge length.

[skeettx]

If you have to make LONG 44 Mag cases, use 30-40 Krag or 303 Brit brass and shorten to needed length
BUT best is these

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-...per-Mag-Brass/


Mike

[curator]

I found the .445 SuperMag brass would chamber without trimming in my .44 RemMag Handi Rifle. At least on mine, there is no real "leade" at the chamber mouth, only a gradual taper from case diameter into the rifling. Loading the .445 SuperMag brass allowed me to seat bullets to just touch the rifling, significantly improving accuracy and eliminated the leading I was experiencing with .44 RemMag cases. My Handi slugs right at .431" groove diameter so I load .432" diameter boolits which chamber fine. I have the same issue with my T/C Encore .44 Rem Mag. Its barrel was probably made and chambered by the same people who made my Handi. Again, the .445 SuperMag brass chambered without reaming and accuracy with cast boolits improved dramatically.

[lar45]

I have a 30.06 handi rifle barrel that the chamber was cut about .1" too deep. If the extractor catches the groove on the case then it will fire, but sometimes the case falls in past the extractor. Then it takes a cleaning rod to get it out.

[hylander]

I have a 30.06 handi rifle barrel that the chamber was cut about .1" too deep. If the extractor catches the groove on the case then it will fire, but sometimes the case falls in past the extractor. Then it takes a cleaning rod to get it out.

That is the exact issue I have with the .223 barrel I have.

I have a reamer for .445 coming for my .44 mag barrel and I ordered dies from Lyman.
Will order brass from Brownells and some .432 cast bullets.

[leadman]

Both of the rifles with the rimless cartridges that do not always fire because the case goes by the extractor can be cured by fireforming the case to the chamber. To do this I would recommend a small amount of a fast powder like Unique, then fill the remainder of the case with of the case with Cream of Wheat or similar. For the 30-06 I would start at 10 grains and increase it slowly until the case fully forms on the first firing. I plug the neck with wax to keep everything in the case. After the case is fired do not set the shoulder back with the sizing die. These cases will only work in the gun they are fireformed in.

As a history note the first 445 SM cases were supposed to have been cut down 444 Marlin. There is a note on this in an old Cartridges of the World I have. Current 445 SM cases as noted above are the same diameter as 44 mag, just longer.