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Thread: 44 Mag brass VS. 444 Marlin Brass ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    44 Mag brass VS. 444 Marlin Brass ?

    Question:
    Is 444 brass close enough in dimensions to 44 mag brass, just longer ?
    Or how about 445 Super Mag brass cut down ?

    I ask because H&R rifle barrels in 44 mag are very long throated, so the bullet has to jump way to far for best accuracy.
    My thought is to cut down 444 brass to proper length for the 44 mag.
    Thoughts ?
    Last edited by hylander; 12-05-2018 at 02:22 AM.
    Failure is not an Option

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Walks's Avatar
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    Well,
    the rim is a bit thicker, they use a different shell holder. The case dimensions ahead of the rim are a bit different too.
    Might have to turn down part of the case and reduce the rim thickness.


    Blasted auto-correct.
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  3. #3
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    Why not rechamber to 445 SM, then you wouldn't have to turn the rims and base down if you went with the 444 brass.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    Why not rechamber to 445 SM, then you wouldn't have to turn the rims and base down if you went with the 444 brass.
    This might be a good option.
    Would you know where to buy or rent a reamer ?
    Failure is not an Option

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hylander View Post
    This might be a good option.
    Would you know where to buy or rent a reamer ?
    4D Reamer Rentals or Elk Ridge.
    Boycott YouTube

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    If your chamber is longer .445 SM brass can be cut to fit.
    If only the throat is longer you need to cut the chamber deeper.

    But before you cut cut anything you need to try seating out the bullets. In your single shot you are not restricted to loading to SAAMI overall length.
    EDG

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    If your chamber is longer .445 SM brass can be cut to fit.
    If only the throat is longer you need to cut the chamber deeper.

    But before you cut cut anything you need to try seating out the bullets. In your single shot you are not restricted to loading to SAAMI overall length.
    That's the problem is the bullets are seated to far out of the case.
    Seated .100 before the crimp groove
    Failure is not an Option

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Yeah but why?
    Is the chamber longer or just the throat?
    Does it really affect accuracy?

    .444 brass measures .464 diameter just in front of the rim.
    .44 Mag. brass measures .450.
    .445 Super Mag brass is the same diameter as .44 Mag brass but is longer. Starline's web site lists the length of .445 brass.


    Quote Originally Posted by hylander View Post
    That's the problem is the bullets are seated to far out of the case.
    Seated .100 before the crimp groove
    EDG

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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Why? what ?
    Not sure if chamber or just throat, will try to figure it out in the next couple of days.
    Yes, accuracy with bullets seated to proper length is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    Yeah but why?
    Is the chamber longer or just the throat?
    Does it really affect accuracy?

    .444 brass measures .464 diameter just in front of the rim.
    .44 Mag. brass measures .450.
    .445 Super Mag brass is the same diameter as .44 Mag brass but is longer. Starline's web site lists the length of .445 brass.
    Failure is not an Option

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    You need to check a number of things to find the cause of the accuracy problem.
    1. Slug the bore for size to make sure it is not oversize.
    2. Make sure there are no tight or loose spots in the bote by pushing several soft cast bullets all the way through.
    3. Check the rate of twist and make sure your bullets are not tool long.
    4. Check the muzzle for damage.
    5. Test it with jacketed bullets to see if they are accurate.
    6. Make sure you do not have a fundamental problem like loose scope mounts or a bad scope.
    7. Make sure the action locks up properly.
    You can ruin your gun if you fix the wrong thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by hylander View Post
    Why? what ?
    Not sure if chamber or just throat, will try to figure it out in the next couple of days.
    Yes, accuracy with bullets seated to proper length is bad.
    EDG

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I once had a 44 Mag H&R rifle that I purchased new. Accuracy with cast bullets was horrible. I slugged the barrel and discovered the issue. My rifle had a bore that was .434" and my mold would not drop a bullet anywhere near that big. I called the factory and talked with a tech about this flaw, thinking that I could get my barrel replaced with one of proper diameter, either .429" or .430". The H&R tech told me that my barrel was within specifications. According to him their manufacturing tolerances for barrels is .430" plus or minus .004". Can anybody fathom a manufacturing tolerance for a barrel with an .008" spread? I found a new home for that rifle and swore off of any future H&R rifles. Good luck in your quest.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    I once tried FL size a fired 444 marlin brass in a carbide 44 mag sizer die I cracked the carbide sizer ring in the die ,RCBS replaced it for free ! Thanks RCBS!!

    IF you only partial sized the case and stay away from the larger bottom web area of the case it may work as long as it will chamber

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Unless you are using the reloads in several firearms (revolvers, magazine fed rifles) you can load to any length and not crimp at all, crimp grooves are only important if a crimp is required (revolvers, tube feed rifles, very hard kicking rifles). The only length requirement for any cartridge is that it functions in the firearm using it. A single shot is only limited by the chamber and throat for cartridge length.

  15. #15
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    If you have to make LONG 44 Mag cases, use 30-40 Krag or 303 Brit brass and shorten to needed length
    BUT best is these

    https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-...per-Mag-Brass/


    Mike
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  16. #16
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    I found the .445 SuperMag brass would chamber without trimming in my .44 RemMag Handi Rifle. At least on mine, there is no real "leade" at the chamber mouth, only a gradual taper from case diameter into the rifling. Loading the .445 SuperMag brass allowed me to seat bullets to just touch the rifling, significantly improving accuracy and eliminated the leading I was experiencing with .44 RemMag cases. My Handi slugs right at .431" groove diameter so I load .432" diameter boolits which chamber fine. I have the same issue with my T/C Encore .44 Rem Mag. Its barrel was probably made and chambered by the same people who made my Handi. Again, the .445 SuperMag brass chambered without reaming and accuracy with cast boolits improved dramatically.

  17. #17
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    I have a 30.06 handi rifle barrel that the chamber was cut about .1" too deep. If the extractor catches the groove on the case then it will fire, but sometimes the case falls in past the extractor. Then it takes a cleaning rod to get it out.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    I have a 30.06 handi rifle barrel that the chamber was cut about .1" too deep. If the extractor catches the groove on the case then it will fire, but sometimes the case falls in past the extractor. Then it takes a cleaning rod to get it out.
    That is the exact issue I have with the .223 barrel I have.

    I have a reamer for .445 coming for my .44 mag barrel and I ordered dies from Lyman.
    Will order brass from Brownells and some .432 cast bullets.
    Failure is not an Option

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