MEC 600 slugger

[Ranch Dog]

Holy smokes, the spent hull is better than I expected! I hit what I was aiming at, and the spent hull is perfect. I won't have to condition the hull to accept a wad or sabot, won't even need a wad guide. I wish I had done this when I first considered the Slugger. When you consider the tools I've bought and the wasted hulls, I already paid for the Slugger. I'm going to box up everything else and put it on ebay pronto.

[RMc]

The original Lee Shotshell Loader used a variation of the same direct press method to apply a "roll turn over" crimp as the MEC Slugger. The Lee system worked well for paper hulls, but lacked the leverage needed to apply an RTO crimp to plastic hulls.

See post #3 in the following thread:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...r-instructions

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks, RMc!



I have a 3" 12 Gauge kit that I haven't used much as a majority of my effort has been with 2¾ hulls. I would be interesting to see how well the roll crimp effort works with my K&M Arbor press. I will give a report back.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's a pic of my earlier Lee Loader

Randy

[RMc]

The Classic Lee Shotshell Loader, in 12 and 20 gauge, is still a valued adjunct to my shotshell handloading bench.

- The shot dippers are the perfect size for dipping proper Black Powder charges for cartridges otherwise assembled on a shotshell loading press. Loaded in my favored 12 gauge Federal Paper hulls as an obvious indentifier.

- The bevel function of the 2 3/4" sizer/crimp die does a beautiful job of increasing the crimp radius after separate roll crimping is completed on 2.75" or 3" loads. Using a Rockchucker press with an old loading die inserted as a stop, insert the finished roll crimp shotshell into the lee die and use the press ram,* (w/o a shell holder), to press the shotshell into the Lee die. Lower the ram and remove the Lee die and eject the roll crimped shell - now sporting an exceptionally well beveled radius.

Talk about smooth feeding shotshells!

* The center of the ram is open so there is no possibility of primer ignition.

[W.R.Buchanan]

RMc: Most people aren't aware of the reason for loading Federal Paper Hulls.

It is simple really.

They smell better when you fire them.

NO ship!

Randy

[RMc]

RMc: Most people aren't aware of the reason for loading Federal Paper Hulls.

It is simple really.

They smell better when you fire them.

NO ship!

Randy

With my loads, fired Federal paper hulls have a "delightful" hint of sulfur!

[W.R.Buchanan]

gotta love the smell of gunpowder in the morning!

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

Bummer, UPS never showed. So, maybe Monday.

[wildflilghts]

Thanks! The wads are Power Pistons (R12H). I would love to know what was used for both powder and the charge. Don't want to dissect any one of the remaining three. That would seem sacrilegious, all three need to be applied to hogs.

You could candle the original load. It would tell you how tall the shot column is and then you'd be able to duplicate the weight of the payload. Just a thought.

[Ranch Dog]

Heck of a deal on a 20 Gauge Slugger. It closes in 50 minutes.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/787565039

[W.R.Buchanan]

Too bad it's a 20 ga. If it was 12 ga. I'd snag it in a minute. I really need it cuz I only have about 14 different ways to load 12 ga right now and could go to 15 easily.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

Life has been good with the Slugger, just been too busy with the holidays to report plus this retired guy was offered a heck of a part-time job doing something that he really likes. Anyway, the hogs moved on, so I have not felt the immediate need to worry about that.

You had asked about whether the press could be used with once fired star crimp hulls and the short answer is; yes it can, both as stated in the minimum amount of instructions provided and in practice. Once fired hulls are no problem, but multiple times star crimp hulls would be questionable. I've done both. In the various, but not many videos out there, you will notice that as the loading of various projectiles is demonstrated, the press delivers a deep "roll" (not sure what is should be called as a looks like it is a roll, but it is more of a fold). The reason for the deep seat is that they are running the press, across the various loads, without adjusting the dies to minimize the "roll." Where I have had a problem with the multiple fired hulls is when the roll/fold base, the point the hull is going to start over, is within the star crimp. I've run into this primarily when I've trimmed a case to eliminate the depth of the roll/fold. In this case, the hull collapses in the area of the star crimp. Again, this has been with hulls that have been star crimped a multiple of times. I've also seen the issue with what has been cheap ammo. The plastic is very thin, and it just cannot be used again.

As a note, I have found that the length of the roll/fold, the space from the overall length of the component stack to the overall length of the hull, just doesn't matter. When the hull is shot, it looks like it is full length resized with no evidence of any kind of crimp. Prettiest fired hull you will look at. As a note, I did install the Creative Reloading Solution Ultimate Knockout on my press, and it does a much better job of ironing out the plastic than the MEC KO. I also have learned that if you use three cycles on the hull on the second crimp station (actual station is #5), it will ironout most of the star.

In the picture below, let's look at the once fired Rem Game Load on the right first. Notice the length of the fold, it's deep, but my suggestion is to take the win with the base adjustment (2¾" HOAL), and let the shot iron out the hull, as the length does not hurt the shot performance. You can also see how thin the hull's plastic is as all the features of the STI sabot can be seen.



The new Cheddite on the left is a demonstration of measureing where the fold fails when trying to reduce the amount of space between meplat and the HOAL. I believe that I ended up trimming .33" of the hull, and it folded in nice and tight. As I noted, I think I'm over this and will just shoot them the full length, but time will tell. The Creative Reloading Solutions Handy-Hull Trimmer does make the detailed trimming very easy, but with the little bit of shooting I've done, I'm not sure it matters. Leaving the hulls full length allows a lot of utility down the road.

As a note, the "base" settings of the three crimp dies delivers this. You can adjust this to about anything in reason, I haven't gone very far.



Pros and cons?

The cons:

• The cost of a dedicated press.
• The instructions, they completely suck. The 600 Mark V instructions are included. Nothing is detailed on the most important aspect of the press, the three crimp dies. A single sheet of trouble shooting tips is included, it is completely inadequate.

The pros:

• If you are starting from zero, you will probably spend this much on the tools necessary to provide a suitable roll crimp that is precise from one hull to the next.
• The crimp delivers a fresh, reusuable hull. I cannot say that for any roll crimp hull I've produced and I'm still waiting to see the fired hulls in the other topic on this subject.

[Ginsing]

Ranch Dog:
I'm interested in one of these presses. If you could clear a few things up for me.
Is the location of the fold adjusted by raising or lowering the first crimp die? Will it crimp at that location regardless of load column hight?
From your pictures it looks like it will press the lip of the hull over the top of the slug if your column hight is high.
I'm just trying to figure out how much adjusting I will have to do with the dies. I load flat nose slugs, round nose slugs, round balls and the Russian Italian slug and hoping I will only need minimal die adjustments when switching loads. All my loads are very close it the same overall load column hight.
This press would be a godsend for me as I will be able to see what I have loaded without having to write on the side of the hull. Also I havnt had very good luck with roll crimping. Where I live the only hulls available are star crimped hulls and roll crimping those are a challenge.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mike: Is the length of the crimp fold @1/2 the length of the unfolded length after the slug is seated and before it is crimped?

Wouldn't trimming the hull back decrease the amount of dead space in front of the slug?

The trimmer I got from BPI takes about 1/4" off the hull which removes about 85-90% of the previous fold crimp on the AA hulls I'm using.

This leaves @ 1/4" to roll crimp and so far they come out looking just about perfect.

I don't see how the dies would know how long the crimp is. I'd think it would be completely contingent of the amount of hull left in front of the slug to fold over.

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

I will get with you guys a bit later this evening. All three crimp dies are adjustable, a pretty good range plus I think the "Short Kit" will take it down to less. I found a kit at Wholesale Hunter for $27 so I bought it just to see what it does. In the mean time, here are the only two sources of troubleshooting tips with the slugger... pretty durn poor given the cost of the press.



https://www.youtube.com/embed/KqPfLSdbMBs

[gpidaho]

Hello All: If any of you are in on the bidding for the Mec 20ga. slug press being offered over at Gun Broker PM me. I don't want to run the price up on my Boolit friends but might put in one more bid if it's not one of you guys. It's not that important to me but as things stand it's $100 less than the ones being offered at Midway. Gp

[jmort]

If there was a 12 guage conversion kit, I would have bought it when it was last up. Seems like zero takers, so if you are a 20 gauge guy, the path should be clear.
Good Luck

[Ranch Dog]

Now that I've had all the dies apart and understood how they work, I'm getting the hang of this thing. The wide meplat of the Hammerhead is a bit of a problem but I've learned a there can be a small amount (.1") resting on the slug and the 2nd crimp die will fold it down. A fellow, not on this forum, reminded me that this is neither a fold nor a roll, but rather it's own hybrid finish so if I had any 078 Lightning wads, to go back and try the Lee slug. I happened to have the wads, and if they shoot as good as they look, it would be great.

This evening I trimmed some 3" once fired hulls that had been previously loaded with a six-star crimp. You can see the segments of the star, a fresh hull would not have the marks.



I think I have a handle on how to set up the hulls for a nice close crimp that does not require any of the dies to be adjusted. I'm pleased with math, just finished it up this evening. It does require the ability to trim your hulls to an exact length and the only tool that I've found that can do it is Creative Reloading Solutions' Perfect Crimp Trimmer. Elsewhere in this topic I mistakenly called it the Handi-Trimmer. This would require that the hulls be separated by the load, the only other way to deal with different loads would be to accept a deeper length to meplat or adjust the dies. The later would be a PITA as you will consume hulls in the adjustment process. The lazy way is the deeper seating of some loads, but I'm going to go ahead with keeping the hulls separated to their loads. Here is the explanation in pictures. A difference in hull lengths for the STI and Lee Loads but I did not adjust the press at all, just cranked them out.

[Ranch Dog]

If there was a 12 guage conversion kit, I would have bought it when it was last up. Seems like zero takers, so if you are a 20 gauge guy, the path should be clear.
Good Luck

I considered it, but there are no older 20 Gauge bolt guns. I don't want to buy the Savage, and I'm not interested in any other action.