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Thread: 15 point blank hits with 44 mag/300 grain...

  1. #21
    Cast Hunter




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    This is an interesting article regarding bear defense with handguns.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...#axzz5ENWSnz2i

    Note this quote towards the end:

    "In this compilation of incidents, one was a failure. The .357 magnum was fired three times. The shooter was mauled after the first shot and after the second and third shots. It seems likely the shooter missed all three shots. It is the only bear defense with a pistol, that failed, that we have found.

    One failure out of 35 incidents is better than a 97% success rate for pistol defenses against bears. Using a pistol to defend against bear attacks seems to be a viable option."
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  2. #22
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    I know one of the guys that accompanied the shooter on this incident. Certainly an adrenaline rush! This was just last Sep.

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  3. #23
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    That article says a lot for having a big gun handy and having a friend along.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I will say black bear normally don't drop dead after being shot...and I'm sure Grizzlies have more stamina. They are like chickens or turtles. I watched 13 bear get harvested back in 01'. Only one dropped and never moved out of all of them. It was the one I shot with a swift Scirocco out of my 300 RUM...and I hit it in the shoulder and backbone. The bear weighed 174 lbs field dressed. It's the half mount on the left. The rest dropped from the trees they were shot out of and ran approx up to 40 yards on average before expiring. These were all small bear. The biggest weighed 268 lbs. the big rug was a 7'6" black I shot in Canada with a Rocky Mountain gator 100. Arrow went completely through the bear...broadside heart shot. It went a little over a 150 yards with no blood trail before dropping. The rug on the right was a 7'2" boar. I shot it with a 200 gr partition out of my 300RUM over bait. Broadside lung shot. The bear did a summer salut, got up and ran about 40 yards and let out about 7/9 roars before expiring. When I skinned it the Hyde looked like a bullet sized hole in and out but the ribs looked like there was a coffe can sized hole blown through both the entrance and exit sides. Bear can take a beating before they expire.


  5. #25
    Boolit Master Markopolo's Avatar
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    I shot a lot of meat black bears using my brown bear gun, a 375 H&H with hard cast 375449, and have only ever had one that stayed put even with a perfect heart shot. I have never had to shoot a brown bear. But my buddy Wayne a brown bear guide says, once a client pulls the trigger, you keep shooting till the bear stops moving. I do carry the lee 310 in my 44 mag as I live in thick bear country. I never had to shoot one with a hand gun, but I have pulled it out a time or 2. I consider the handgun a “last resort” as they tend to piss bears off.... once you start, you gotta finish. In thick country like SE Alaska, that is a scary proposition. I have given up the 375 h&h and just use my 308 for “meat bears” properly loaded. If I wander in brownie country, my 12g shotgun with slugs and buck goes with me.

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    Last edited by Markopolo; 12-05-2018 at 11:19 AM.
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  6. #26
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    Scary stuff. I do think I'd have still tried for a head shot, a good loaded CB ought to poke clean through a griz skull. This happened not too far from where I grew up, and I have spent a good bit of time in that country without any bear problems, save for once. Had a sow with 3 cubs at 10 yards in heavy willows, and all I could think of was that by the time she comes out close enough to see, she'll be on top of us. She growled and squalled and broke enough brush to put the fear of God in me and my wife, man was she mad! I agree with him on how hard it is to walk in thick brush now, I'm still a little gunshy and don't think I'll ever get my wife to go in that stuff again. I had my SBH with 340gr +P+ hard cast GC boolits and at that point I'd have rather had something belt fed, crew served with wheels!
    Raisin' Black Angus cows, outta gas, outta money, outta tags, low on boolits, but full 'a hope on the Rocky Mountain Eastern Slope!
    Why does a man with a 7mag never panic buy? Because a man with a 7mag has no need to panic!

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  7. #27
    Boolit Mold BlueMntCeltic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    Kinda dispels the notion that Buffalo Bore makes the hardest hitting best Handgun ammo around.

    Or else those 2 guys are the worst shots in the world.
    I'm thinking the latter (well not the worst, perhaps) but I'm with a couple of the others on this thread, an autopsy would be very revealing as to where the bullets were hitting and how many were 'lethal' hits. I remember the deconstruction of the Miami shootout, lots of shots, not many of them effective.

  8. #28
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    I, too, have enjoyed this thread. I've shot (and collected all) some bears, agree with most of the above, and have a friend very seriously mauled by a griz. They are nothing to take for granted. Some place in the continuum of bear ammo there is a right place between fast and heavy. I have no idea where that might be. Too fast could, as they used to say, blow up and give poor penetration and too heavy might not get pushed fast enough to bring forth the full potential of the bullet design. More gun would seem to move you in the right direction. When I'm in griz country, I carry a .44 mag with 275 grain jacketed bumped up to the top end. Hope I never have to see if I've made a good choice.

    Ps: Welcome aboard with your first post.

  9. #29
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    200-240 grain cast RN FP from a 8x57 or 30-06 with 10 round magazine would make fine bear gun.

    But wed all agree 2 BARs loaded with M2 Ball/AP tapped together fired at the same time would be more reassuring.

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy Static line's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickory View Post
    I read on this very website that 9mm's are good for killing grizzly bears. I guess a 44 magnum is not the best caliber for large bears.
    This is the internet.You can read anything.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by am44mag View Post
    This is why I'm glad bears are exceedingly rare in my area, and grizzlies are non-existent. 15 shots of 44 mag? Geez... I have never felt that my 629 was underpowered for anything, but think I will buy a 460 S&W or a 500 mag if I ever go up North to hunt.

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    don't know if you'll ever see this post ...but...i have a long barreled S&W 500 mag with 33 grains of powder under a gas checked 440 grain boolit.

    if you were to shoot it and a 44 mag side by side ...(and i have) ...there is no common ground. period.

    the 500 will seriously ruin a bears day ...it hits hard.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master RED BEAR's Avatar
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    lived in trailer in black water swamp years ago and had electric company man chased on top of my trailer by small black bear. jot home from work and wife said in no uncertain terms we were moving right now. i just loved living in the swamp could open backdoor and shoot go hunting within shouting distance of home and if it rained hard you could go fishing by just opening the door. had 55 gal drums with cement in bottom to walk on top of to get to my car on higher ground.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMntCeltic View Post
    I'm thinking the latter (well not the worst, perhaps) but I'm with a couple of the others on this thread, an autopsy would be very revealing as to where the bullets were hitting and how many were 'lethal' hits. I remember the deconstruction of the Miami shootout, lots of shots, not many of them effective.
    Me also. Glad they survived. Think of this, would they have survived without the .44 and those heavy cast boolits?

    I wasn't there, so I am just thinking out loud. I doubt the first two shots at a moving grizzly hit anything, and if they did, nothing vital. The sound and concussion of the .44 magnum at close range and MAYBE some doubtful hits, caused the bear to go into adrenaline "overdrive".

    I doubt if a .338 Winchester Magnum or a .375 H&H magnum would have stopped the grizzly IMMEDIATELY at this point.

    Next, the 3 rounds to the neck did cause an immediate result, the bear faltered and the men were able to retreat.

    Now, as to five more rounds in chest, maybe, maybe not. He may have intended for 5 rds in the chest, but good intentions are not always facts.

    Now, they see the bear sitting on its butt, so it is DEFINATELY hurt badly, or it would still be carrying out the attack.

    A reload and 5 more rounds to the bear, and he is dead. This hunter has to be shaking and the adrenaline pumping, so we need to be cautious about how good these shots were.

    Like to see the bear skinned and his organs lain out to see what the heavy cast slugs did.

    Thankfully these hunters survived, that is the main thing.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master

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    The FBI's prioritization of duty rounds would seem to apply here as well:

    1. Ya gotta shoot straight.

    2. Ya gotta penetrate to the Tootsie Roll center of the Tootsiepop

    3. Only AFTER ya shoot straight and penetrate to the Tootsie Roll center of the Tootsiepop do the benefits of a wider bullet start to show. . .but that part of the equation seems the hardest to quantify, as good single hits with 9mm, .40, and .45 all seem to be doing the job of stopping bad guys quickly 89-94% of the time. One could probably make the argument that the 9mm isn't less effective, but it is slightly behind statistically on one-shot stops only because the lower recoil lets you get a second or third shot off before you perceive the totally satisfactory effects of your first one.

    Most of us here have probably seen that these cast solid, medium to large meplat bullets are capable of penetrating A LOT - double or even triple what you'll get with same weight, same speed JHP police loads. The surest way to "get et" would then seem result not from packing a duty semi-auto for bear defense, but rather going about with anti-human ammo that's DESIGNED to stop after penetrating LESS than 18" of Jell-O. Great for crack heads, but that wouldn't even penetrate through an angry grizzly's attitude.

    Pondering all of that, it's probably really hard to beat cast solids in from rounds that duplicate the Old West .40 to .45 caliber ballistics, and the .357 Magnum certainly doesn't suck for the job. They all have the capability to penetrate plenty, and the recoil they generate is such that you don't have to spend valuable fractions of seconds bracing up to shoot them, or coming down out of recoil for a second go. The real flamers might be ideal for hunting with the pistol as the primary for purposes of better trajectory and keeping that penetration at distance, but I'm not sure it's what you want for mano-a-mano bruin rasslin'.
    WWJMBD?

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
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