Update on .38-45 Clerke project

[yeahbub]

A fellow I knew got into this caliber and we discussed various minor functional issues he had with it, including chambering of some newly converted cases. A veteran bullseye shooter commented that it was very helpful to use an M-die when prepping the cases for loading. This fixed the chambering problem and the chamber catching on and deforming the case neck. It was pleasantly accurate, but leading seems to be an ongoing problem. I get the impression a different lube and a softer alloy would have been helpful.

[Patrick L]

Both good suggestions, thank you!

I plan on ordering some virgin .45 ACP cases to play with over Christmas break. I currently was using an old RCBS .357 expander die, but I do like M dies for lots of other calibers, so maybe I'll grab one for this.

[Patrick L]

Ok, brass and M die ordered!!

[Patrick L]

Robert, you hit the nail square on the head!

I had 30 loaded rounds and 20 fired cases, so I first took my barrel out of the gun and used it as a drop gauge. All of the loaded rounds were a tight fit in the chamber. So I did as you suggested, ran them into my .45 ACP carbide sizer with the decapping rod removed. All the rounds now dropped into the chamber with a satisfying "plock" and the back of the case dead even flush with the rear of the barrel hood. Ditto on the fired cases.

It remains to be seen if I need to do this as a final step each time I reload, or if doing it once during the case forming is sufficient

[Mk42gunner]

I'm glad it worked for you.

Like I said, I had to do that when making .45ACP shot shells the cheap way. I don't remember all the dies I used but I know the .30-30 and .22-250 dies were involved. Fortunately, thanks to an estate auction I am past that now, I ended up with both the form die set and the loading die set for a total expenditure of $20.00.

Those two boxes made just about everything else I bought that day basically free. I really hope when my daughter sells all my stuff that she does some homework and gets a knowledgeable auctioneer.

Robert

[Patrick L]

OK, 100% success today. 30 rds ran without a hitch or hiccup. Pretty accurate little round too. Shot on the indoor range (50 foot) at real 50 foot national match course. Slowfire 9 out of 10 in black (pulled last one JYST outside). Timed fire 8 out of 10 in black, rapid 5 in the black, pulled 5 a bit low but I do that with anything.

[Patrick L]

I spent some time over the last few days forming cases. I had purchased 100 new Starline cases in anticipation of this. Absolutely no lost cases, and using my barrel as a case gauge, every formed case dropped in with what Dean Grennel used to call a "plock" fit. And I didn't have to use the .45 ACP Carbide die for that final sizing to achieve that. It will remain to be seen what happens after I fire the cases, whether that extra sizing will be necessary.

Now I just need to play around with boolits to see what this cartridge likes best. The 147 gr FPs were store bought, so once they're gone I will need to cast something. I have three .38 caliber molds, hopefully there's something that it will like. Then again, to keep recoil to an abslote minimum I might want to try something in a 9mm 125 grain range. I don't have anything that light, all my .38 molds are 148-158 grain.

[Patrick L]

I tried each of the three boolits I have, all with success, but also a few quirks. I fired a 10 shot group at 50 feet (our indoor range distance) from a bench rested position.

The first was our plainbase clone of the 358156 Lyman. It shot well, but with one interesting peculiarity. 6 of the 10 went int about 2 inches, right to the sights, BUT, the other four printed a tight group of their own (maybe an inch) low and right, making the total group about 3 inches. I was very carefully watching the sights, and I really can't account for that. But I don't consider them fliers when they land right on top of one another. It was like two separate groups.

The second was the Lee 158 gr TLSWC. It shot very well, 10 shots under 2 inches, and really 9 went about an inch and a half, with 1 flier making the total group just under 2.

The third boolit was the Lee 148 gr TLWC, a full wadcutter. I loaded it with 1 band outside of the case mouth. It was very accurate too, also doing 9 into about 1 1/2 inches plus a flier that made the group total just under 2 inches. And of course the holes in the target were cut cookie cutter perfect. Unfortunately there were feeding issues. The rounds fed , but they were so stubby that rounds 3, 4, and 5 would move forward in the magazine under recoil and not feed correctly.

I really need to figure out this picture thing and post some pictures.

[Patrick L]

This project continues to be one of the most enjoyable things I've messed with in a long time!

I did order a Lee TL124TC mold, and yesterday got a chance to fire a few. Accuracy was exceptional, equal fully to what I got with 148-158 grain boolits. 3.2 gr Bullseye went into a really nice little cluster, but function was not 100% with my current 10# spring. 3.5 of Bullseye functioned 100% and shot nearly as well.

I think ultimately I will get me an 8# spring and use 3.2 gr. with the LEE boolit. To say that combination felt like shooting a .22 might be a bit of an exaggeration, but not much. For now I have about 500-600 of the heavier boolits to use up. I have another 100 virgin Starline .45ACP cases so I think on my next vacation I'll form them up and that will give me 200 pieces of brass.

Still trying to figure out the picture posting thing. Darn Photobucket!

[Patrick L]

Hi guys, I've left this thread for awhile. I've spent most of the winter fooling around with loads etc. on the indoor 50 foot range. Then I moved outside when things thawed out for 25 and 50 yard work. More importantly, I finally relearned how to post pics since Photobucket got greedy.

Anyhow, forming cases is no big chore, other than it takes five pulls of the handle to get one case. Its a four die forming set, and your FL sizing die is the fifth step. I initially tried some old cases I loaded about a gazillion times, and got lots of splits, etc. Virgin Starline cases yielded ZERO losses. The five steps are


I fitted the barrel and bushing to my accurized Gold Cup (this is a ,45 target from the files)


I initially used whatever boolits I happened to have, plus I ordered the Lee 9mm 124TLTC at right


Ultimately, the Lee boolit and a Lee 148 TLWC, seated about half out, are the two I have settled on. Both loaded with 3.2 gr Bullseye and a 7# variable rate spring function great. The full wadcutter can be a problematic feeder in some of my magazines. The full wadcutter is very accurate, the TC nearly so and gives noticeably less recoil, although both are very mild.

This is a typical 50 foot group, although not with the boolits I ultimately settled on


And this is a 50 yard group, fired 1 handed "NRA Bullseye" style, with the 148 WC


This is about as well as I can shoot. Sorry about the high flyer, I always seem to yank one! As to the other two, it looks like i could go a click or two down, as the ones in the black are all in the upper half.

This project has been a hoot! Thanks for following along and all the advice I was given.

[Pressman]

Great story, I would have loved to have that combination when I was shooting Bullseye. We had to use a separate gun fitted a throated chamber and lighter springs for 45 wadcutter loads.

[Patrick L]

Thanks! I was getting concerned, no one replied to my last post. So many people helped out last fall and winter, I wanted them to see the pictures finally!

[onelight]

Your 50 yard 1 hand group humbles me , I would be elated to do that at 50 yards with both hands off a rest.

[bruce drake]

great culmination on the efforts to get it up and running! Next step is to shoot it in a match as part of a 900 pt leg of a Bullseye 2700 match.