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Thread: No RTV. Do I dare.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
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    No RTV. Do I dare.

    I am assembling a Y Block 292 engine. I have everything off except for the rotating assembly, cam and lifters. This engine was rebuilt in 1978 and since then only amassed 20K miles as it has been sitting for 25+ years. The heads were not rebuilt in 1978, just replaced with a used set. I started working on trying to get it started and found I had no compression in a few cylinders so I removed the heads. The machine shop told me everything needed to be replaced and now I have them back in like new condition. The cylinder walls look great and there was zero sludge (or metal) in the oil pan or lifter valley.

    Everything I took off I de-rusted, de-greased and painted. I am at the point now I need to reassemble this thing. While looking on Ford forums I find that there are people who swear that RTV is not needed with gaskets. I looked at Fel Pro's site and sure enough they tell you not to use RTV except for gaps and where parts meet at corners. This seems strange to me as I have always used RTV for oil pains, water pumps, timing covers and valve covers (that's what I was taught). Has anyone here put an engine together without using RTV and just the gaskets?

    By the way, this engine is in a 1959 F100 that was purchased new by my grandfather. He died in 1983 and my father and I drove it from CA to NY. My parents kept the truck in their garage for a few decades. They didn't drive (or start) it much. They made a cross country move and now I have it. The floor pans need to be replaced, but that is the only rust.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master MyFlatline's Avatar
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    In a previous life I twisted wrenches. Worked on a bunch of International Harvest engines. They recommended weather strip glue/adhesive. The 3M yellow for all of their gaskets. I have never used RTV on a head gasket, yes high heat stuff on pans and valve covers but that is about all..

  3. #3
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    " Has anyone here put an engine together without using RTV and just the gaskets? "

    For the most part, "YES !"

    Back before RTV was common, gaskets were the rule.
    The old cork gaskets were sealed with Indian Head Gasket Shellac (that little brown bottle was on the top of every toolbox I was around)

    The head gaskets were pressed steel, sometimes with copper inserts, sometimes with a fiber section and sometimes just mild steel. They went on dry.

    The Intakes on "V" blocks were the most challenging and RTV was a godsend for the ends of the block under the intake (GM engines were the worst) but even those could be assembled without RTV. Once RTV became common the practice was to use the intake to head gaskets but substitute RTV for the ends of the "valley".

    Oil pans were rubber, cork, or one of the black rubber like fiber gaskets. A little RTV around the corners of the front timing cover/oil pan area could be helpful.

    Every thing else was just gaskets.
    Things that had to come apart like valve covers on engines with adjustable lifters got gaskets glued to one side and a thin layer of grease on the other side to help them separate later. It didn't always save the gasket but it made replacement a lot easier.

    And yes, I do remember using that weather strip adhesive to glue some gaskets in place.

    THE OLD SCHOOL WAY WAS TO AVOID RTV

  4. #4
    Boolit Master chuckbuster's Avatar
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    PermaTex #2 "Aviation Formula"
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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy


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    no RTV, a little permatex to hold the valve cover gasket in while you assemble.
    "The Constitution should be taken like mountain whiskey -- undiluted and untaxed." - Sam Ervin

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Just an FYI, If you had the timing chain off it's not timed like a regular V8 engine.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ford...tm-dcoTRG4v0M:

    Another one: https://www.google.com/search?q=ford...yFgSmF3Y9PUzM:

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Only time I have ever used it, was on badly corroded parts such as thermostat housing flange if a new one was not available. Just built a 1937 ss100 engine.......rtv was not around in those days. Think RTV appeared in the 70's.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    No rtv on head gaskets or valve covers or just about any place on that motor. On On places like thermostat housing’s maybe oil pans where gaskets are tough to hold in place I would put a little gasket shellac on one surface only! usually on the block itself just to hold the gasket in place. Make sure you straighten out the valve covers any oil pans would’ve bolts go through when you finger on the inside mating surface make sure there’s no bumps if there is tapping down very lightly. In some cases are new or blocks I’ve used our TV around oil pan where it meets the crank in the front and the back but not on the gaskets itself. And yes I’ve done more than one Ford. Including a for 29 cobra jet, more than one 351s, A few 289s, A couple of 300 straight sixs, and one Chevy four 400 small block, That was punched out 40 over. Which i’ve put in the 72 jeep Cherokee and I pulled it up to a 400 Pontiac turbo transmission. Just so you know I’m not blowing smoke up your back side. Put that baby together and please post some pics I would love to have and I’ll pick up like that. Good luck take care you’ll be fine
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  9. #9
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    We used Permatex as well. We had a 1958 short bed Fleetside with the 292, 3 speed on the column and Factory Overdrive. That truck would jump naked!
    I also had a 1967 F100 long bed Fleetside with the 352 Y block and it was a great motor as well the solid lifters clicked a bit but that didn't bother this teenager.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


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    One thing I noticed while removing parts was that no RTV had been used. Some adhesive was used to hold gaskets in place during assembly. The engine was pretty oily though. I guess this was due to age and sitting without running for so long.

    The parts on the Y block are very heavy duty compared to a SBC, for example. The timing cover is a piece of cast iron that weigh 25 pounds. The valve covers and oil pan are stamped from some seriously thick stuff. The oil pan sits flat against the block all the way around without the round front part that can leak on some engines. You don't have to worry about the front of the intake manifold either. This all got me to thinking that maybe not using RTV isn't crazy.

    I am aware of the peculiar method of timing between the cam and crank. I haven't removed the gears though.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    We used Permatex as well. We had a 1958 short bed Fleetside with the 292, 3 speed on the column and Factory Overdrive. That truck would jump naked!
    I also had a 1967 F100 long bed Fleetside with the 352 Y block and it was a great motor as well the solid lifters clicked a bit but that didn't bother this teenager.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    The 352 engine in the 1967 F100 was an FE block not a Y block. I think Y blocks were used until 1964.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    The fact That the valve covers and Oil pan and similar parts and gunk on inside. The last time the engine was rebuilt it’s very possible they didn’t bother the clean those things adequately. Just changed the parts that were broken worn out and smacked it back together . We had a rather derogatory term for those types of rebuilds which I won’t repeat on this open forum
    Last edited by poppy42; 11-28-2018 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Darn AutoCorrect is driving me crazy today
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy PaulG67's Avatar
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    "Has anyone here put an engine together without using RTV and just the gaskets?"

    Yes, all the time. It is a waste of time, money, and it makes a mess.
    Paul G


    I am Retired, I was tired yesterday and I am tired today!!!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy42 View Post
    The fact That the valve covers and Oil pan and similar parts and gunk on inside. The last time the engine was rebuilt it’s very possible they didn’t bother the clean those things adequately. Just changed the parts that were broken worn out and smacked it back together . We had a rather derogatory term for those types of rebuilds which I won’t repeat on this open forum
    Where did you get the idea there was gunk in the engine? I said here was zero gunk.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    I used Permatex Aviation on a lot of parts to seal and places that had (it is brushed on) corrosion. It works great to hold gaskets in place for assembly.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Where did you get the idea there was gunk in the engine? I said here was zero gunk.
    Sorry I guess I read a post wrong. Hey I’m old give a break. Anyway good luck with the rebuild and please post some pics of that truck
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  17. #17
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    One thing than has improved over the years is the quality of gaskets.

    The old cork/rubber gaskets were the norm and they worked but the newer style black fiber/rubber ones were far better over the long term.
    Gasket Shellac was used on the old cork gaskets for a few reasons. The shellac not only held the gasket in place (which could be very helpful) but it also prevented oil/gas/coolant from seeping through the gasket.

    It was also common practice to glue gaskets to one surface, usually on the part that is removed, and coat the other side in grease. This was done so that during future disassembly the gasket would be more prone to stick to the part that you were replacing anyway. So things like water pumps and fuel pumps had the gaskets glued to the removable (and later discarded) part.

    Some things like the gasket under the distributor were just greased.

    Valve cover gaskets were glued to the valve covers with 3M weather strip adhesive and greased on the side that met the head.

    Two piece rear main seals were slightly offset so that the gap between the two sections didn't align with the gap between the bearing cap and the block. The ends of the seal were cleaned with acetone a just a dab of RTV of adhesive was used to glue the two halves together when the bearing cap was put in place.

    Steel freeze plugs were cleaned with acetone and the inside surface painted days before they were installed.

    Threaded plugs were degreased and Teflon tape or pipe dope was applied to the threads before they were installed.

    It is that attention to detail that pays off over long periods of time.

    Prior to the invention of RTV, gaskets worked just fine. After RTV came along, gaskets still worked fine but RTV could help.
    At one time, any use of RTV was the sign of a bad mechanic. Things have changed and RTV has become more commonplace, even eliminating gaskets in some situations but good gaskets and some attention to detail will produce excellent results.

  18. #18
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    Sure, went through a lot of Permatex. But previous to RTV most replacement part surfaces were flat and square faced. I have even cut gaskets out of cardboard cereal boxes.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    only place to use it is the china walls front and back of the intake valley.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master MyFlatline's Avatar
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    How many actually know what RTV stands for. I have always been amazed at how many don't..

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