Swam with the Hammerheads Today!

[longbow]

Randy:

One of the reasons I haven't pursued getting the Lyman Foster slug to shoot better is that I hate my mould! It is the most stubborn, cantankerous mould I have ever used! It has always cast poorly and the slugs tend to stick on the core pin. I don't think I ever took the time to polish it but the angle isn't enough for decent release anyway... in my opinion. I've made moulds that cast better and make better slugs... at least they are more accurate so why bother?

What you might try is to use a chunk of 12 ga. barrel and a flat or cup nose punch to swell the Lyman slug to bore diameter. I hadn't actually thought of that but one of the fellows whose handle I forgot posted that recently and says it works pretty well. The other was SluggerDoug who made a "knurler" from helical gears to impress "rifling" into the slug and bring it up to bore diameter. SluggerDoug also said that made the Lyman slug more accurate. Basically, get it to bore diameter and accuracy improves.

My TC slug gets knurled to bore diameter for my single shot which runs 0.733" where the slug casts at 0.729". I haven't tried them in my Slugster yet but will. It runs 0.729"/0.730" so should be about perfect fit. Blood Trail tested these and they did okay from rifled gun but nothing spectacular.

A solid lead slug from a metallic cartridge is likely the best bet. I'm with Cap'n Morgan on that. Cartridges (or chamber filling "adaptors") made to reduced volume and that will align those slugs should remove some of the inherent inaccuracies of components that we are all fighting. A guy would not want to be leaving those in the field after shooting though so maybe not so practical for hunting using repeating guns. You'd definitely want to be keeping an eye on ejected hulls!

You could use brass, copper or zinc in those Hammerhead wads. They are actually a pretty nice set up and offer some good options for slugs and obviously they are accurate. I wish they made a smoothbore version. I am a bit surprised they don't work well in smoothbore but apparently not.

A guy with a lathe could make his own non-discarding sabots using nylon, polyethylene, Delrin or likely some other plastics but it would be a bit tedious unless you had CNC or made tooling to get consistent turning and boring sizes. I still like AQ design with solid tail wad rather than cushion leg... or Breneneke Classic.

One man's opinion.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yeah, I've looked at Brass Shells however in the guns I have they just won't work. The A5 would chuck them and so would the pump guns.

I see them as strictly for Break Barrel Guns or maybe a Bolt Gun where you can control the ejection and keep the shells close.

The other problem with the Foster Slugs is they don't fit any wad I have. Mine are around .695 in dia. The mould sucks and is the 2nd most worst Lyman mould I have ever owned . I had a .357 173 gr SWC mould I never got a good boolit out of. It lives elsewhere now.

Making alternative slugs for the ST wads is no problem at all, brass cuts real nice. The Sabots could be made as well in any configuration and the collapsing base of the ST Sabots worries me.

We all know the immortal words of E.Keith when he said the "back end is the steering end." It seems logical that, that phrase would apply here just as much as on a Handgun Boolit.

The sabot could be a cylinder with a hole in the front for the slug, and countersunk rear with a sharp edge to act as the gas seal. Maybe some driving bands to lessen the friction. Seems like it might work.

On another note: I watched 4 of the "Wild Boar Fever" episodes on the Outdoor Channel tonight. Most guys are shooting rifles with Aimpoint red dots on them. However I saw one guy with an O/U Shotgun. And I suspect that if the show wasn't sponsored by Sauer and Sons you'd see more.

I think the A5 would work well for shooting running Russian Boars. I already have a small mount for my Burris Fast-Fire 3 figured out to replace the rear sight on the rifled barrel. I figure if it could stand running on an auto pistol, it should be able to survive on a slow moving Shotgun Barrel. We'll see what Happens?

Randy

[longbow]

Trying not to drift off topic here so keeping to the Hammerhead title, I was reading yesterday (should have copied the article) that sabot slugs slip in the sabots so don't pick up the fairly fast 1:36" +/- rifling twist totally.

The comments were that the fast twist was chosen for that reason ~ due to slippage the slugs don't reach full twist rate spin. If that's true then I'd expect slippage to vary with slugs especially where you can (or could) buy sabots then cast your own boolits to put into the sabots. If the boolits aren't a very tight fit or keyed to the sabot or knurled or something, I'd expect variations in slippage so resulting in variations is spin rate.

Also commented was that slower twist rates showed less slippage, using high speed photography.

What wasn't mentioned was how full bore slugs responded to the different rifling twists because there should not be any slippage of a proper fitting full bore slug. The rifling left on my 0.735" RB's from a rifled Remington barrel was crisp and clear so no skidding there. I'm betting Hogtamer's Zlugs don't skid in a rifled bore either!

Now both Ranch Dog and BT say these Hammerheads are very tight fit so maybe they don't slip but if there is any truth to the slippage story I can believe that wad slugs like Lee and Lyman slip at least if fit isn't good and tight.

Based on type of projectile style, I'd expect the Hammerheads would be happy with a round ball twist as would most Foster slugs, round balls and the Lyman 525 gr. slugs.

I still think the fast twist maybe detrimental to big 'ol slugs that don't need to be spun that fast if for no other reason than any imperfections, voids, dross inclusions may lie a long ways from the centerline so have more effect on balance when spun. This would be more exaggerated in an HB slug where the mass lies well away from the centerline and there is reduced mass where the HB is so a given size void or whatever would tend to have more effect.

I am well underway on my slow twist rifled choke tube now but have to sharpen the cutter so a bit annoying when half way through rifling! I'm trying muriatic acid to see if that will work because I don't want to remove and replace the cutter. Hopefully this all turns out well. If so I will obviously be trying out bore diameter balls and slugs but would also be interested in Hammerheads to see if my theory is right on spin rate. An issue there might be plastic failure when hitting the rifling at 1200 to 1500 FPS. It's a slow twist but still...

Longbow

P.S. Hahahahaha! Reading back it was Randy that posted that info on twist rates and slippage a page back in this very thread! I guess my short term memory is a bit flawed! I blame it on a misspent youth. I did remember the article but not where I read it. DOH! However, still valid info.

[bikerbeans]

Remington Buckhammers solved the problem of the slug slipping inside a plastic wad. The nose of the buckhammer slug was the same diameter as the plastic wad so both the slug and wad engaged the rifling. It's a shame buckhammers went out of production, they were the most accurate 12ga slugs i ever shot.

BB

[Ranch Dog]

The image is yesterday's 100-yard target. The wind was out of control crazy, but I just had to do some shooting.



The MOA is slightly better than the last 100-yard target, but the win is that was a 3-shot group vs. this 5-shot group. The 37.5-grain charge is a bit too much for the 2¾" star crimp. When I retrieve the loaded rounds for the range, the folds were raised a bit, so I had to reseat the fold. That might have affected the group size as well. I hope to shoot yet this afternoon, going to return to the 37-grains.

[Ranch Dog]

Longbow, I've been thinking about slippage as of late especially with the Lee/Lyman and the petals of a pressure wad. Has anyone tried a product like MP-1 as a base filler and bit on the insides of the pressure wad petals?

The STI sabot has spines molded in it, and I have a bunch of these laying in the dirt where the slugs have gone on into the berm. I see very good groove engraving, and it doesn't look like it is slipping. Same with the interior. I wouldn't mind if the sabot just stayed with the slug. That is what got me thinking about the MP-1, just a dab on the base of the slug before it is pressed into the sabot.

[longbow]

Not sure much of anything will stick well to a smooth lead slug. A bit of knurling would not only make the slug a tighter fit to sabot but also give the glue something to grab.

If those Hammerheads are as tight in the sabots as you say they make be okay. I think the comments in the info Randy posted were aimed at typical sabots carrying copper jacket bullets which would be pretty slick and trying to spin up in a fast twist may just result in some slip.

I'd think Lee and Lyman wad slugs could easily slip. There knurling makes sense or sure.

Keying the slug to sabot or making the nose full bore to engrave would do it too.

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. The 100-yard shooting this evening in a calm wind was absolutely awful. They stayed on an 8.5x11 target but that is about all I can say. Maybe, its time for a break.

[W.R.Buchanan]

They need wind to stabilize them...

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. The 100-yard shooting this evening in a calm wind was absolutely awful. They stayed on an 8.5x11 target but that is about all I can say. Maybe, its time for a break.

There's the slug shooting I know.

[jonp]

That was my thought too ... so I PC'd some of my 12 and 20 gauge Lyman sabot slugs! (I just haven't had a chance to load and shoot any of them yet. My thinking was that they might be visible in flight ... sort of like a sabot slug "tracer" ...)

Seriously, you think that might work? Maybe?

[Ranch Dog]

Great responses guys! Gotta laugh at this for sure. I sure was tempted, the wind came up, and I thought it might just need that. I refrained and did ranch stuff.

I ran the game cams again and no hogs, so no rush. I thought about messing with the smoothbore barrel on my Mossberg after I shoot my SMLE #4 MkI. I'm going to take that rifle with me in two weeks and try to get on a "standby" hunt on a Wildlife Management Area as I need a change in scenery for a few days.

[Hogtamer]

RD I can't believe no one has mentioned the phase of the moon as regards slug casting and shooting. 14% waning is an awful day to shoot. It would have been ok to cast today though. Plus all the earthquake activity in Alaska makes the heavy elements do strange stuff. Nope, just not a good day to shoot!

[Ranch Dog]

RD I can't believe no one has mentioned the phase of the moon as regards slug casting and shooting. 14% waning is an awful day to shoot. It would have been ok to cast today though. Plus all the earthquake activity in Alaska makes the heavy elements do strange stuff. Nope, just not a good day to shoot!

Actually, I knew it wasn't a day to shoot when my dad's tomcat chased my Treeing Coon Hound! That's a sign that everything is upside down.

[Hogtamer]

Oh no! I see a calculator on your bench. There's no ciphering in slugs, it just don't add up!

[bikerbeans]

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. The 100-yard shooting this evening in a calm wind was absolutely awful. They stayed on an 8.5x11 target but that is about all I can say. Maybe, its time for a break.

I thought that type of range trip just happened to me.

BB

[W.R.Buchanan]

Got my Mould and Sabots today and will cast up some slugs this afternoon. These sabots are pretty stout and I don't see alot of deformation.

I do however see a definite possibility for a machined version. I noticed that the gas seal on the STI Sabot is not perfect. Since the back end is the steering end, that could affect accuracy.

A machined version wouldn't have that variable.

The thing would be a cylinder of your chosen diameter with some driving bands and a recessed base that would flare to seal. The front would have a hole for the Hammer Head to be pressed in..

Brass Hammer Heads could be made too for use in Eco Conscious States.

I see possibilities here.

Randy

[Blood Trail]

I saw on accurate mold website, they offer the hammer head slug in multi cavities.


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[longbow]

That Hammerhead idea would work for machined brass, copper or zinc as well as cast zinc and of course lead. A guy might get away with a Brenneke like slug in non-lead too though you'd need more length to make up for lower density. That is certainly a possibility we may all wind up with in the future ~ non-lead projectiles. You may not be alone Randy!

Hmmmmm... if Accurate has a mould for Hammerheads a guy could get Tom to make the nose larger diameter so it would engage rifling then there would be no slippage possible.

A little off topic but still slugs and guiding them to the target... My order of Lee stuff came in from Titian yesterday, amazingly since Canada Post has been off work with rotating strikes. In that order are core pins for my Lee slug moulds. I plan to drill and ream a tapered shank in the middle so I can put a screw in and attached a couple of 16 ga. felt wads Brenneke like (yes, I like Brenneke's!). I'll try those in my smoothbore but I'd be curious as to how they'd work in rifled gun too. Tight fitting hard felt should help pick up that spin.

What hasn't shown up is my M-Carbo spring set for the Slugster.

Yeah, slug shooting and phases of the moon, tidal influence, humidity, global warming, black magic, you name it! it all seems to have an effect. And seldom a good effect... look what lack of wind did for you!

[W.R.Buchanan]

You didn't mention "How you are holding your mouth when shooting." Remember, everything matters.

I want to see your Lee Slug moulds with the mods. Going to put the Lyman mould up for sale on Ebay as it is not working for me.

Wouldn't sell it to someone here as I don't want the grief. Should be able to get my money back on that one.

Are you planning on a blank pin that eliminates the drive key?

Randy