WidenersRepackboxMidSouth Shooters SupplyInline Fabrication
Graf & SonsStainLess Steel MediaRotoMetals2

Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Wearing over time?

  1. #1

    Wearing over time?

    I have an opportunity to purchase a cartridge specific Ideal tong tool from the late 1800s at a good price, locally. I was wondering, even though a tong tool works lead and brass, do the internal dimensions tend to go out of specification over time so that the ammunition is larger than it should be?

    Thanks in advance for your advice!

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
    mdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So. Orygun
    Posts
    5,527
    If there was any excessive wear in the tool, I think it would be in the handle/hinge pin fit. But I would size a case and see if it's "too big". I wouldn't think there would be any die wear to speak of unless the dies were used on multiple tens of thousands of rounds. I have an Ideal tool/die set in 44 Special but far from an expert on the tool. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will post soon...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    11,915
    I have a number of such tools and I have not found that brass and lead change the original dimensions of the hardened steel tools.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    jrmartin1964's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Plantersville, MS
    Posts
    369
    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    I have a number of such tools and I have not found that brass and lead change the original dimensions of the hardened steel tools.
    I have quite a few Ideal tools, which I use regularly and some of which date from the 1890s My experience mirrors Char-Gar's.
    Jim


  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    39.7594 N, 84.1917 W
    Posts
    461
    The only wear I've ever seen on tong tools, was on the caliber specific 310's. The wear was from using the the priming chamber as well as the bullet sizing dies. Both of these items when use are steel to steel use, and from what I've seen the die components are a little harder than the handles.

    Scott
    Scott

    You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them.

    38 Super - DOB 02/06
    Commander - DOB 02/12
    Delta Elite - DOB - 1989

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    2,462
    The only legitimate wear I've seen on the iron handles is on the knuckle where the hard steel push rod of the priming chamber bears against it. With the old tools you mention in the OP, this would not be a problem since priming is accomplished at its own station and the steel teat on the handle pushes against the primer... no wear likely. Damage is far more likely to be from rust and neglect than any amount of wear that would be likely.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    9,282
    I would worry more about the wear on the hinge pin and holes more than the dies. the pin and holes wear is magnified due to the desighn of.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Arizona
    Posts
    3,204
    Sometimes one with the nonadjustable chamber that was heavily used in antiquity (or one that’s been allowed to rust inside and has been polished out) will give a lighter or nonexistent crimp on the shell. To be fair, some batches of semi-obsolete shells are shorter than the standard lengths of the old days, causing the same problem. If you have the single- or double-adjustable chamber (or don’t need to crimp) this won’t be an issue.

    Otherwise, the things are bricks. I worry more about rust and abuse in the mould cavity than any prospect of the tool wearing out. Of course, I use them (some in NRA Beat-Up condition) occasionally for nostalgia’s sake rather than routinely for high volume production. The ammunition so made shoots as well as any made by other means.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    2,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Bent Ramrod View Post
    Sometimes one with the nonadjustable chamber that was heavily used in antiquity (or one that’s been allowed to rust inside and has been polished out) will give a lighter or nonexistent crimp on the shell. To be fair, some batches of semi-obsolete shells are shorter than the standard lengths of the old days, causing the same problem. If you have the single- or double-adjustable chamber (or don’t need to crimp) this won’t be an issue.

    Otherwise, the things are bricks. I worry more about rust and abuse in the mould cavity than any prospect of the tool wearing out. Of course, I use them (some in NRA Beat-Up condition) occasionally for nostalgia’s sake rather than routinely for high volume production. The ammunition so made shoots as well as any made by other means.
    “Otherwise the things are bricks.”
    ^^^^^THIS^^^^^

    If it comes to you in reasonable condition and you don’t devise some very creative way to abuse it, an Ideal or Winchester tong tool should still be good for your grandkids. Put a little oil into the hinge joint every now and then and TRY to wear it out. Go ahead I challenge you.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check