Muzzleloader questions

[rodwha]

Just do it...………

I’m curious why you think alloys shouldn’t be used with a patched ball. On a traditional forum a lot of people use alloys, especially when wanting penetration on larger or more dangerous game. One fellow even tested brass balls and reused one. Now if you were speaking about cap and ball revolvers it would be a bit different, though alloys are still used there as well as long as the BHN stays under 10 or 11. Quite frankly I’ve been contemplating using 2% tin to help with fill out with REALs and pistol bullets.

[Hossfly]

John McCorkle, a book by Lt. James Forsyth, The Sporting Rifle and it Projectiles, is good reading.

[Loudenboomer]

John first thing I'd try is cast up a .429-240 gr or a .452-255 gr boolit of stick on wheel weights or pure lead put it in a appropriately sized sabot. Pour down 100 gr. of your favorite flavor FF or 2 pellets and give it a try. My sons have harvested a ton of deer shooting the Hornady .429-240 gr swaged SWCHP in the their 50 cals.

[John McCorkle]

John first thing I'd try is cast up a .429-240 gr or a .452-255 gr boolit of stick on wheel weights or pure lead put it in a appropriately sized sabot. Pour down 100 gr. of your favorite flavor FF or 2 pellets and give it a try. My sons have harvested a ton of deer shooting the Hornady .429-240 gr swaged SWCHP in the their 50 cals.

For all the guys and casting I do, 45 cal is one caliber I have missed out in as of yet...I do 30 cal of all variety, 35 caliber of all sorts...even 224...but no 45 yet....I know I know I'm missing half the fun. I did order and get in a Lee mold for their 320 real bullet. It seems heavy enough that the fast twist would do ok pushing it hard enough to catch a whitetail....not looking for blazing speed just accuracy with enough on yhe business end to do the deed.

Haven't had a chance to warm up the pot yet....but collecting all the do dads I need to go shoot a bit (powder, 209 primers, measure, etc...) I also broke the rifle completely apart and am now giving it a complete and detailed clean before putting on a coat of Brownells alumahyde II...finish is pretty rough and this isn't necessary but a nice touch...hope to make this old bird sing!!

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[pietro]

I’m curious why you think alloys shouldn’t be used with a patched ball.

I know about making alloy boolitts.


Please consider that you're speaking from the viewpoint of a seasoned muzzleloader shooter.

I was addressing potential barrel leading with the OP, who said he isn't as experienced - adhering to the K.I.S.S. principle...……….


.

[charlie b]

This is super helpful thank you!

I'll check out the Lyman but Lee makes a real/rb combo mold...round balls may give me a chance to get used to the firearm and play with lower charges while the 320 grain could likely take a deer.

I guess the easiest option is to go with one of those great plains bullets or saboted round of some variety...not opposed to it - the tinkerer in me always comes back to anything I can diy I should while the pragmatist in me says just go with what is realistic....

You say Lyman makes a mold for a bullet much like the Hornady great plains?

Ultimately i think paper patching is a great option for me but a bit much to try and bite off and get decent results in just a month before taking aim at game...maybe for next season

Again thank you

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Here is the Lyman mould

https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands...letnumber=1604

You might try the Hornady's before paying for the mould. They come already loaded with lube.

I have never liked sabots. I don't hunt so my range days are 20-40 rounds from the muzzleloader. Most sabots I have tried required a good cleaning after every shot to get good results. With the difficulty to load it makes for a long day at the range.

[pietro]

I have never liked sabots.

I don't hunt so my range days are 20-40 rounds from the muzzleloader.

Most sabots I have tried required a good cleaning after every shot to get good results.

With the difficulty to load it makes for a long day at the range.

IDK the bore size of your rifle, but I used inline's/sabot's for about 10 years before I went back to sidelock's, and never experienced those issues.

IME, sabot loading difficulty can often come from loading a boolitt that's too large (diameter) in the sabot - a mistake that's easy to make, since different (say .50cal) sabots have different I.D.'s, as either .44 (.429") or .45 (.457") boolitts can be used in a .50cal, with it's proper sabot.

Range shooting (20-40 rounds) will keep the barrel too hot to stop the plastic sabot material from softening & leaving reside in the bore (also exhibiting lousy accuracy) - unless the barrel is allowed to cool between every few shots, either naturally or via pouring cold water downbore.


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[charlie b]

Yep, fully aware of all the issues with sizes of sabots and bullets. Still don't like them. Have tried them with inlines as well as traditional (with proper twist) including my current Lyman GPH.

I just really like paper patching now days and there are no issues with loading or shooting longer strings.

[John McCorkle]

Yep, fully aware of all the issues with sizes of sabots and bullets. Still don't like them. Have tried them with inlines as well as traditional (with proper twist) including my current Lyman GPH.

I just really like paper patching now days and there are no issues with loading or shooting longer strings.

So I am very interested in paper patching...both smokeless and black powder.

Need to spend some more time over on the black powder paper patching forum here...been strapped for time rounding the end of the year but next season is calling my name.

What are your experiences with black powder pp? Easier to clean? Accuracy? Higher velocities than with standard patch or conical? I'm guessing some of the same general pluses apply for black powder paper patching as it does to smokeless?

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[John McCorkle]

Wads are used to help stop hot gases from blowing by the projectile through the rifling grooves.
Sometimes they improve accuracy and help to obtain more consistent results and sometimes they don't.

The Remington Genesis is the same rifle as the Traditions Yukon.
A small percentage of those rifles are known to have some potential quirks.
For instance, you may need to run a wet Q-tip on the face of the breech block to remove fouling if it begins to stick from accumulated powder residue.
One very accurate load someone discovered was a 350 grain Keith .430 bullet with a Harvester green sabot and 105 grains of Pyrodex RS.--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bla...e-bullets.html

Yukon Owner's Manual--->>> https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/d...1406058430.pdf

There's some threads with good information about both the Genesis and the Yukon on the Hunting dot Net black powder forum. These are the search results for the Genesis--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/sea...archid=2857604

Every rifle is different and while some may shoot bore size conicals well enough, a person can also cast a bullet of their choice for shooting with a sabot.--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/4163209-post7.html

So question, I have been scouring the interwebs to find a scope mount...

I have the two piece set up that comes with it....but these Weaver slots are very close to each other, I typically prefer to mount scopes on a 1 piece base with rings as far apart as I can to save wear or potential damage to the scope body should it get knocked, dropped, or hit...

I cannot find a good source of info in these as it's now discontinued...I went on a limb and ordered a durasight base I thought may work but it doesn't line up...

Remington customer service is out of office for training? So....you mentioned earlier this is the same as a traditions Yukon...is it exactly the same or is it similar the same? Or better yet what other bolt pattern scope bases will mount up to this lil fella?

Thanks again for your help

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[arcticap]

Yes, I'm relatively sure that the Yukon is the same gun just rebranded.
I found a 1 piece scope base for the Yukon from many sources but the same one is not listed for the Genesis.
However, I think that it's important that the screws fit the drilled & tapped threads.
The one piece mount is longer with 4 Weaver slots, if that's the right one for the Yukon as advertised, and it's sold by many retailers - #A1780.
However I can only hope that the screws have the same threads as needed for the Genesis.
There's always the possibilty that the holes and threads are different even though it's the same gun otherwise.
This vendor's feedback says that it fits the Yukon:--->>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Traditions-...:rk:1:razz:f:0

Others:

Newegg:--->>> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Optics Planet has 2 different mounts specifically for the Remington Genesis [DNZ one piece and Warne 2 piece steel]:--->>> https://www.opticsplanet.com/s/remington-genesis

Other feedback I've read said that the screws for the Yukon mount appear to be metric.
This mount fits more than one model of Traditions guns.
See what kind of info. that you can get from Traditions.
Let us know how it works out.

[charlie b]

So I am very interested in paper patching...both smokeless and black powder.

Need to spend some more time over on the black powder paper patching forum here...been strapped for time rounding the end of the year but next season is calling my name.

What are your experiences with black powder pp? Easier to clean? Accuracy? Higher velocities than with standard patch or conical? I'm guessing some of the same general pluses apply for black powder paper patching as it does to smokeless?

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Your first stop should be the sticky thread by idahoron. If you want more info then you can search back in this forum as there are quite a few threads about paper patching, a lot of them by ron. Then, if that doesn't scare you away, try some of the other forums that deal with long range muzzleloader shooting.

I find that the PP bullet is easy to deal with. About the only time it will be less efficient may be when trying to quickly load a 2nd shot.

Velocity depends on the bullet weight and powder charge. Everything else being equal the PP will probably have a bit more velocity. PRB can be faster since it is much lighter than most PP bullets. PP really does not come into it's own until the range goes out beyond 150yd. Even then you have to judge range accurately due the the high trajectory of the bullets.

Again, Ron is one of the sources who has repeatedly taken game at longer ranges with his side lock muzzle loader.

[John McCorkle]

Yes, I'm relatively sure that the Yukon is the same gun just rebranded.
I found a 1 piece scope base for the Yukon from many sources but the same one is not listed for the Genesis.
However, I think that it's important that the screws fit the drilled & tapped threads.
The one piece mount is longer with 4 Weaver slots, if that's the right one for the Yukon as advertised, and it's sold by many retailers - #A1780.
However I can only hope that the screws have the same threads as needed for the Genesis.
There's always the possibilty that the holes and threads are different even though it's the same gun otherwise.
This vendor's feedback says that it fits the Yukon:--->>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Traditions-...:rk:1:razz:f:0

Others:

Newegg:--->>> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Optics Planet has 2 different mounts specifically for the Remington Genesis [DNZ one piece and Warne 2 piece steel]:--->>> https://www.opticsplanet.com/s/remington-genesis

Other feedback I've read said that the screws for the Yukon mount appear to be metric.
This mount fits more than one model of Traditions guns.
See what kind of info. that you can get from Traditions.
Let us know how it works out.

So originally bought the durasight for cva accuracy, optima, wolf....that one did not work. None of the holes lined up (only two at a time) and left too much beyond the breech for the swing to the side to open. That is part DS102b (did not fit Remington Genesis)

On your suggestion I bought the traditions a1780...that one DID work. Lined up perfectly. Screws mounted up well and all seems fine.

So if anyone else is looking for a one piece Weaver base for Remington Genesis muzzleloader...the Traditions Yukon and break open barrel mount part number a1780 works well.

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[arcticap]

I'm very glad to hear that it worked out.

We often take it for granted that a scope mount will be available until we need to find the right one.

Now that you found one make a lot of smoke and have fun!

[John McCorkle]

Got it all assembled again (took it all down to clean it up well)

Added a scope base (mentioned above for scope base that works for Remington Genesis)...rings and scope

Now time for load development! I'll cast up some REAL bullets and RBs tomorrow and take it out next week!

Thank you all again for your help on this one...never thought I'd be excited over black powder, but here I am...happy as a lark!!

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[Hossfly]

Jan, 15 not far away,need to practice now you got it lined out, good luck.

[arcticap]

Nice rig.