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Thread: Slug Hollow Base Fillers

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


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    Slug Hollow Base Fillers

    I have the NOE 680-500-HB with the hot glue plugs for testing after a cold front passage. What about other fillers. JB Weld seem like a pain, but how about something like Plastic Wood? Any others?
    Michael

  2. #2
    In Remembrance bikerbeans's Avatar
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    I heat treat hollow base slugs and leave the cavity empty. The sidewalls do not collapse. Then its just a matter of a wad column that doesn't migrate into the HB.

    BB

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Bondo!
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Anyone ever try the lightweight filler for sheetrock paint prep? I have played with the Lyman 20ga and found I needed some type filler to keep the wad from " sticking" inside. Haven't revisited the project in years but the possibility of an NOE 16 ga tweeked my interest again.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I've only used cormeal and hot melt glue which works well for me but... amazingly enough if the slugs aren't warm the glue can totally shrink (cold shut) and not bond. I often run a small wood screw into the base of the slug or into the cavity so that the head sticks out and that holds the glue if the bond is no good. Those Lyman clones have a very conical HB cavity that may be problematic for glue pugs falling out in transit to the target so changing accuracy.

    Heating the slugs before filling or using a screw is the best bet.

    Alternatives:

    - as BB says ~ oven heat treat then skirt collapse shouldn't be an issue; worked for me but I didn't like having to use hardened slugs
    - for rifled gun, cut the HB pin down so the slug is solid
    - paraffin wax; apparently it falls out after the slug leaves the bore... so I am told
    - epoxy/JB weld
    - silicone or acrylic caulk

    Paraffin wax or hot melt glue are probably the easiest and maybe cheapest too. Screws don't cost much but you need a lathe or jig to get the screw hole centered... or get a pin inserted into the HB plug to leave a screw starter hole.

    I have had skirt distortion on ACWW slugs with very thick skirts so yes, it can be a problem.

    Longbow

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
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    I've used hot glue, rice, corn cob media and felt as well as nylon washers.
    The best was probably the nylon washers about 1mm thick X 16mm diameter followed by hot glue on a fiber seat.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    Thanks, guys

    While in the plastic bin, I've already had some of the hot glue plugs fall out. I didn't have any Plastic Wood, but will get some this week. The only thing I could find in my shop was some "ready, quickset grout" so I tired it on one slug and it is as hard as a rock. It didn't expand nor contract, just a level base from the puddy knife.

    My slugs have leveled off at a BHN of 29.
    Michael

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    I have used the plastic wood filler and it is as good as the hot melt glue, also used "fast and final" sheet rock patch, it is not quite as good as the plastic wood but does work. if you have a strong enough wad column, filling is not needed but I set the slug right in a wad with no extra wad pieces so the base fill does help.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Using coarse sand paper or emery cloth on a dowel that fits the HB taper to rough it up may give the glue enough grip to stay in. However, I've had attached glue skirts cast into Lee Drive Key slugs in a form fall out! A guy would figure theres enough surface there to grip and not a lot of taper but nope!

    Like I said, I either cast with an HB pin with an added tapered pin to leave a screw starter hole or I drill a starter hole then put a wood screw in to give the glue something to grip.

    Alternately the Paraffin wax sounds like a good idea. Caulk might be good too and fairly cheap.

    For a few rounds for hunting, cost or time spent doesn't really matter but when you decide to go blast off 50 rounds or so it does! Yes, I plink with a 12 ga.!

    Longbow

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    how about uhmvw or plastic ball bearings or would that add to much weight

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Those should work in a regular Foster style HB that is deep with not much taper but not likely in the Lyman or clone because the cavity is very conical. The ball would fall out.

    I think a few people here have tried the plastic balls. At least there have been discussion threads. Corbin has them and I think you can get them on internet auction sites. They certainly seem to work in Federal Tru-Ball slugs so they should work in a similar home cast slug.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Yes, I plink with a 12 ga.!
    That would not be on my list of shooting for fun.

    Thanks for the Plastic Wood report, rancher, I think that is my next move. It seems like it would be the easiest to apply. Now it is down to a color selection!

    My initial impression of Lyman (NOE) over Lee is that the 680-500-HB is easer to find a column wad that fits and fits without trimming the wad petals. I still need to get the NOE out to 100-yards. I do sit and look at the two molds offered by Lyman and the two by Lee and wonder, what the heck! All four have been around a very long time, but any effort searching does not deliver good MOA results at the end of the story. All require some kind of tinkering to get anywhere. I guess they keep selling the designs so that is good by them and I guess some guys don't mind the ever-increasing helical flight path downrange. I think it all comes down to the relationship of the CG to CL; they all need tail feather that sticks with them to the target.

    All this thinking caused me to pull two Lightfield Sabot/Slugs and load them over 25-grains of Universal with a roll crimp them. I just want to see if they shoot as tight as their factory ammo does. The hulls crimped sloppy because they had been folded, but I'm going to send them downrange anyway.





    With all my internet searching, I had wandered on to the Sabot Technologies ~ Slugs-R-Us website. I went back to it and bought 40 of their one and a 1/8-ounce saboted Hammerheads just to see how they travel downrange.

    Michael

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Welcome to the mysterious world of slug shooting!

    I have launched tons of lead downrange over the years and so far have come to the conclusion that, for me anyway, round balls are about as accurate as any home cast and loaded slug I have tried to 50 yards or somewhat further. Pretty much all HB slugs I have tried suffer from skirt collapse unless filled or oven heat treated (soft lead need not apply).

    My "solution" was to go to attached wad slugs like Brenneke or AQ. In fact I tried to make a poor man's AQ slug with moderate success. In the end I made some moulds that produce a solid lead nose with screw starter hole in the base. These get a #10 or #12 flathead wood screw run in so there is about 1/4" sticking out. The "nose" is then put into a form with screw up, the form filled with hot melt glue to slightly overfilled, the whole works inverted quickly then pushed base down onto a cold steel plate that has been lightly greased. Once cooled and solid the slug with attached glue base is pushed out.

    I usually use at least 5 forms so this all goes quite quickly.

    These are wad slugs and if I do my part in making decent glue skirts they are quite accurate.

    I have also used the same technique to put skirts/attached wads onto Lee and other HB slugs with good success. With Lee Drive key slugs these are much like BigMrTong's 3D printed skirts that he snaps in. BigMrTong's skirts are likely more consistent and easier to install though... but I do not have a 3D printer.

    I agree with your observation ~ " ...they all need tail feather that sticks with them to the target." For smoothbore anyway. From rifled gun this shouldn't be a problem, just fit to bore which can take some playing with wads and slugs.

    I made a full bore mould that drops slugs at 0.729" within about +/- 0.001". It didn't shoot very well from my single shot which when slugged after the fact was 0.733" bore! So, I tried knurling the slugs up over bore diameter then sizing back to exactly 0.733". Accuracy is now quite good to 50 yards.

    my new to me Mossberg 500 Slugster has a 0.730" bore. I'm betting that unless I make another mould that casts a straight ribbed slug (done that) at 0.734"/0.735" so it fits the single shot and ribs will crush to suit the Mossberg I won't be getting very good accuracy from one gun or the other.

    This is the reason I have taken to making slugs undersize then paper patching to suit the bore. A guy can get custom fit that way but... if patched to fit the larger bore then maybe a bit big for the smaller bore unless easily compressible. Wad petals only give so much before failing.

    I slugged a Remintgon 870 with rifled barrel and got 0.727" so another 0.003" down from my new smoothbore.

    It is hard to fit that much variation 0.006" and maintain accuracy. My thoughts are that a full bore slug that is started at about 0.735" and designed to compress to suit the actual bore diameter is likely to be the easiest to get universal accuracy... like Brenneke does.

    Another point I should mention about my slugs with attached glue wads. The glue compresses and expands on firing squeezing the glue and wad petals tight to bore. this is obvious on recovered wads. It works in smoothbore but I haven't tried it in a rifled gun to see if rifling will be gripped well enough.

    The old (and back again) AQ slugs have a plastic attached wad that works in the same way and they gave me very good accuracy to 100 yards but were too expensive to shoot many of. That is what stimulated me to try hot melt glue.

    https://www.ballisticproducts.com/AQ...info/0151000L/

    These are slightly different design than what I tried many years ago. Those looked like a bore diameter ball with a little flat on the base but same plastic attached wad. The new ones have a more slug like lead nose.

    I was not a believer in "rifling" on slugs being effective at producing rotation but Taofleadermaus has video of typical lead Foster slugs showing slow rotation in flight. Not enough to produce typical gyroscopic stabilization but enough to offset some flight deviation to improve accuracy. Not sure if a rifled gun would shoot AQ's well or not but worth a try. A smooth attached wad would be better for rifled gun.

    The Hammerheads are reportedly a good slug though and you have those.

    BigMrTong's modified Lee slugs may well produce good groups from rifled gun as the straight fins produce a nose heavy design using a slug designed to be loaded into a shotcup.

    It is a challenge and requires much more tinkering than typical metallic cartridge reloading and shooting! At least for some of us slow learners.

    I'd figure those NOE Lyman clones should shoot quite well from rifled gun with the right wad/slug fit to bore.

    Another option for rifled gun is 0.735" round balls. They shoot well for me from smoothbore and same loads from rifled gun gave 2" groups at 50 yards and that with open sights. Also, I had been recoiled almost senseless shooting a bunch of hot loaded .44 mags. through my Marlin then 35 or so of the same stout 0.735" RB load through my light smoothbore off the bench prior to using the rifled gun.

    Longbow

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Caulk might work, although might be expensive.

    Candle wax might work as well if ya have cheap candles.

    Wood glue might work as well. I used to buy it by the gallon when I was doing finish trim work. Was less expensive that way. (BTW - don't let a jug tip over in the bed of your pickup all over the place including tools. It ain't pretty. )

    I have not tried any of the above, just making suggestions on what I might try if I were wanting to fill the voids in slugs & use fairly lightweight substances to keep the weight down.

    I just use the Lee slugs and have not filled the bases yet.

    G'Luck. Just trying to help with some suggestions...
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I use hot melt glue . But I’ve been contemplating wax , I’m thinking that would be loads easier to get a relatively flat base .
    Parker's , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines

  16. #16
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    One thing to consider here is "wished for accuracy" versus "real world accuracy" and is what you are getting sufficient for what you intend to use the slugs for?

    In the real world very few older hunting rifles would do much better than 3" at 100 yards and that was if the guy could actually shoot that well to begin with. And yet animals fell, and dinner was served.

    If a smooth bore shot gun with rifle sights will do 3" at 50 yards. I already know my 20" M500 will do that with Factory Slugs and I have posted pics of the groups which I even shot offhand. If I can get these Lyman/NOE slugs to shoot that good I'll be pretty happy.

    I am working on getting a Rifled Barrel for my old A5 and if that gun shoots to even 6" at 100 yards with open sights I'd be happy and that gun would do anything I could ask of it with that level of accuracy. A gun with a rifled barrel might be a 125 yard gun maybe a bit farther but I think 150 yds. would be asking alot. But it would be a 3" gun at 50 yards which is more likely to be the case.

    If the gun is 6 MOA at 100 that is still 9" at 150 which is still within the kill zone of most game animals. Since the typical ranges shotguns are used at are less than 100 and more like 35-70 yards I think we'd be finding that we had arrived at a workable combination fairly quickly.

    I think the key is to not expect varmint rifle accuracy from a shotgun. And to realize that any hit with a 500 grain slug is going to have a serious effect on the target. Keep in mind that a cloverleaf group on a target with slugs is going to cover a 1.5" area.

    Randy
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    I agree what you are saying; I would be happy with larger MOAs as long as long as the MOA is maintained; 50, 75, and through 100 yards. When I started this work, I told myself I could live 3.5 MOA given the size of the projectile even though our whitetails are small. The mistake I made was shooting the Lightfields. The inconsistency I've seen from the Lee slugs, as an example, as they helical out of control; just does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I shoot 4 or five at 100-yards, and one does not even strike the berm, the instability of the projectile is a reason for concern. I own enough ranch land that I know it will stop on my place, but it is a sickening feeling when it happens, and it has been happening on a regular basis.

    The Plastic Wood filler went very well. It feels the same as the grout, but the grout was easier to apply.
    Last edited by Ranch Dog; 11-11-2018 at 07:31 AM.
    Michael

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold
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    Has anyone used buffer to fill up the bottom of a slug to keep the wad from being shoved up in the slug? (I know primarily everyone is talking about filling the back of slugs with material that does not come out.)

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undercover Rabbit View Post
    Has anyone used buffer to fill up the bottom of a slug to keep the wad from being shoved up in the slug? (I know primarily everyone is talking about filling the back of slugs with material that does not come out.)
    IMHO glue wax caulk whatever are a bit more user friendly then buffer .
    Parker's , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Undercover Rabbit View Post
    Has anyone used buffer to fill up the bottom of a slug to keep the wad from being shoved up in the slug? (I know primarily everyone is talking about filling the back of slugs with material that does not come out.)
    With the new NOE mould, I tried BPI Buffer Filler. I kept the slug base up while the column wad went over it and then maintained pressure on it until the stack was complete. It didn't work; it was the same as shooting without any filler. Column wad collapsed up into the hollow base.
    Michael

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check