A tale of two molds: C309-170-F and C312-155-2R

[HangFireW8]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. 2 weeks ago I tried out two new-style Lee 2 cavity molds purchased in February of this year, a C309-170-F (decoded: gas check, .308"+, 170gr Flat Nose) and a C312-155-2R (the pointy SKS/AK boolit). I wanted to test them sooner, but life intervened, and what little hobby time I had I spent on my 8mm project.

Anyway, on initial inspection, I was impressed by the two molds' design, lack of swarf and burrs, and the new venting. I did minimal prep, just like the Lee instructions said- smoke the cavities and lube the sprue plate pivot and the alignment pins with NRA 50/50. Once warmed up I added 2-stroke to the sprue plate with the cavities full.

Between the two molds, I could not have had a more different experience. The 312-155 rained boolits. The 309-170 boolits stuck in the left side. Every time. I had to beat them out. I cast 1.3 pounds of 155's and about 20 shriveled, wrinkled, cold 170's. Both had the LH thread sprue plate screw come loose often. I cleaned the 170 very carefully, inspected for burrs, smoked it again (something I only do with new Lee molds) and tried again 2 days later. Same thing, I cast 11 pounds of 155's and about 20 pathetic cold looking 170's. This time I tightened down harder on the LH sprue plate screws, and it only came loose once in the middle of the 155's longer run.

When inspecting the 170 again a week later, I still couldn't find the burrs... then noticed the meplat looked larger on one side then the other. D'oh. Well an off-center cavity cut was a suspect, but it was right there in front of me the whole time. I looked at the boolits and the part line across the flat point was WELL off center. Double D'oh. I should have noticed that sooner. Well, at least I set it aside and got busy with the 155!

I dropped the 170 off on Monday the 12th at the Post Office (which was closed for Veteran's Day, but the self-serve kiosk and drop box are open), sent it Priority with Lee's RMA form. I got an email receipt from Lee Precision on the 15th, and a "Your order has been shipped!" notice on the 16th with First Class tracking number. I should receive it tomorrow (20th).

[sukivel]

I haven’t had that extreme of a problem, but some of my Lee’s rain bullets, some don’t. My .312-155 rains bullets as well...


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[Rcmaveric]

I have heard some horror stories. But their customer support has been good about things though.

All my molds and Lee tools have been good to go. Maybe a little tweeking on a push through sizer.

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[FergusonTO35]

Pretty much all my Lee molds start out being very sticky, I just use a small pick tool to pop the boolits out. After a year or so of use they rain boolits no problem.

[HangFireW8]

I got the replacement today, they sent me a new one. I'm not certain, because it's so shiny, but looks like it might be off-center. But I'll hold off judgement until I try it, which should be some time during this extended holiday weekend.

[Kraschenbirn]

In my experience, it's rare to have a Lee mold with a sprue plate screw that doesn't loosen due to the different expansion coefficients between aluminum and steel. I just take it for granted that I'll need to drill and tap for a 6-48 set screw after I've cast with it the first time to determine if the blocks might have other issues. Last Lee I obtained was one with the new style alignment pins/bushings and, right from the get-go, dropped, perhaps, the best boolits I've ever seen from an out-ot-the-box Lee but sprue plate screw was loose by the time I finished casting my first test run.

Bill

[HangFireW8]

Bill,

Does your experience cover the new LH thread molds?

[MT Chambers]

Life is to short to mess around with crappy molds, you get what you pay for. Today there are so many good mold makers including the old standby iron molds from Lyman, Rcbs, and Saeco.

[sukivel]

Life is to short to mess around with crappy molds, you get what you pay for. Today there are so many good mold makers including the old standby iron molds from Lyman, Rcbs, and Saeco.

I agree!


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[ubetcha]

I agree that the Lee molds do have some issue that, by now, one would think the problems should have been addressed. But there are Lee designs that shoot pretty darn good

[Kraschenbirn]

Bill,

Does your experience cover the new LH thread molds?

Dunno, the only "new model" Lee that I have has RH threads.

[HangFireW8]

That's not the latest then, Lee has made several improvements over the years, the latest the largest set of changes at once include the LH thread.

[HangFireW8]

After a busy week and a rather fun family weekend, I got some free time Sunday evening with the new Lee 170, and it has the exact same issue.

Today I filled out the inquiry form on the Lee Precision website, and asked them to advise me on what to do. We'll see what happens.

(I really need a better Macro lens for my digital cameras, or at least one of them. Capturing the part line on the meplat is... challenging).

[HangFireW8]

I got a pleasant email today, apologizing for not inspecting the replacement mold, and saying I don't have to return it, they were sending another that would be inspected. That was quickly followed by a shipping notice for the replacement, with the note:

"Customer returned mold on Order #XXXXXX, replacement mold has same issue. Sending new mold at no charge, inspected prior to shipping by JB = Plant 3 Manager & AL."

We're not out of the woods yet, the third mold has to pass muster. But I have to say, Lee Precision customer service has greatly improved. I followed their processes, returning the first mold with the RMA form they provide online, and used the customer "email" link (really web inquiry form) to follow up on the second mold. In return I got very speedy and courteous service. This is a big change from just a few years ago, when you called and got the impression you had just pulled someone off of the machine shop floor to deal with your problem.

I can understand if someone doesn't want the hassle of dealing with a bad mold, and just write off Lee as a source. That's OK and your privilege. My take on it, when you're dealing with desired tolerances of less than .001" in an inexpensive consumer product, sooner or later you'll have an issue that needs customer service. I've had issues with Lyman (several), Mihec (1) and now RCBS. (I haven't really dealt with RCBS yet, I just found out there's an issue, but I have no worries there.) In every case, some of my effort is required to sort it out and/or send it back... but I deal with it patiently, and it gets resolved.

Most of my Lee molds have been fine from the beginning, they are just so inexpensive, and have such good standard designs, I can try many of them... and that means, by the odds, I eventually get some bad ones. This is the second time it's taken 2 tries to get something right (assuming this one will be correct) with Lee. If I get a good one, it still will be worth it, I've spent more time typing in this thread then I have dealing with Lee. IMHO, many people put too large a hassle factor on mailing back a product. To me it only takes a minute to print out a form, package, and a few more minutes to drop by the Post Office, and either use self-serve, or just drop it off at the counter if I've pre-printed Priority postage. (In other words, I never stand in line at the P.O.) It costs me less then 8 bucks to Priority ship a mold back to Lee. I can do that a bunch of times before it adds up to the cost of a Lyman, NOE, Accurate, RCBS or SAECO mold.

Other people have other ways of dealing with issues. The RCBS mold I got off of eBay, is shifted (mold halves out of alignment) by a solid .001". I strongly suspect someone found the shift issue and just dumped it on eBay. I might be able to correct that by simply driving out the alignment pins a bit. I'll try that and retry the mold before I call them. If it doesn't work, I'm sure they'll take care of the issue, but I've heard with RCBS molds you still have to return the original, unlike die and press parts. If so, that puts them on a par with Lee (sorry, that's the way it is).

[MT Chambers]

One mold out of two worked, that's well above Lee's average.

[Herb in Pa]

Buy once cry once...………...

[Elkins45]

Lee used to lathe bore their molds. Now they mill the cavities into the two halves separately. That just seems like a recipe for alignment and concentricity problems IMO. I wish they would keep the new blocks but go back to the old production method.

[Walks]

LEE has always had some of the best idea's.

But the cheapest materials and mediocre workmanship.

[Chad5005]

I to have that 309-170f mold that's new still in the box,i got a lot of good feed back on here about that mold

[HangFireW8]

I finally dug up the macro lens on the old digital camera.

New mold arrives Thursday.