Modern handgun hunting has opened many eyesg has opened many eyes...

[RMc]

Sometimes it is good to look back on an earlier time to better understand our own.

It is easy to handload a 5 inch barrel 45acp 200gr hard cast SWC up to 1100 fps with published standard pressure loads. That mirrors the ballistics of an 1860s black powder 44 Rimfire Henry rifle.

Indeed, the 10mm autoloading pistol is a close ballistic equivalent to a black power 38-40 or 44-40 rifle with 180 and 200 grain bullets respectively.

Yeah, I know the modern autoloading pistol is more convenient to carry in a holster. But I think it is good to keep the ballistic picture in perspective.

Bottom line:

Modern handgun hunting has opened many eyes as to just how effective the Henry and WCF cartridges were from rifles - in their time.

Your thoughts?

[missionary5155]

Greetings
With that same thinking first corn cruncher I dropped with a revolver was thumped with the 375248 Lyman pushed at 1250 FPS from a Dan Wesson 8 inch 375 Supermag. Did just what I remember the old Northern Michigan hunters said the 38-55 did year after year from Winchesters and Marlins up in those north woods.
Any ballistic copy of old BP cartridges we produce in modern handguns will turn out the same. At least as long as corn crunchers are kept from wearing Kevlar.

[Texas by God]

I'm hunting without fear this season alternating a 44-40 and a 38-55. No deer yet but it'll happen I hope. I'd not hesitate to use my .38Sp/150swc or .45ACP/200swc at less than 50 yards, either.
Bullet placement always.

[Sigmanz]

I have found amusment in the attitude of black powder level 38-40, 44-40, etc being underpowdered yet 10mm is the bestest thing ever. I think perhaps it is the color and plastic used in the guns that shoot them that make them superior. Them dern wood and steel guns just can’t get it done.
We won’t even mention the killing ability of a round ball lol.

[missionary5155]

Oh why not... The lowly round ball whether patched or bare has accounted for train loads of critters long before there were trains.
And wonder of wonders some of us actually still, some how manage to put the knucker-plunk on lots of critters big and small.
Long live the round ball !

[winelover]

Took an 8 point, this season with .54 cal. Renegade and round ball. Deer went about 60 yards, after the double lung hit. I don't get that kind of performance, with the last three shot, with a 44-265 RF in my Marlin 1894. They make it more than double that distance.

Winelover

[ubetcha]

I'm amazed that a lot of gun ànd hunting magazines seem to come short of saying that one can only hunt with high powered high volicty earsplittenloudenboomer rifles and handguns. How easily they forget about the long period of black powder and ball. And game should be taken at long distances.

[Shawlerbrook]

Many modern hunters substitute tech., magnum power, etc. for skill, knowledge and patience.

[JSH]

1983, took a fork horn with a 7TCU.
1985ish, model 29 another forkhorn, only this was spot and stalk, more like hide and seek. In a cattail patch of about 2 acres.
Later on XP's came into the circle, along with longer barreled various caliber TC's.
I had rifle hunted off and on, depending on where I was and what kind of pressure the deer had seen.
They say you go full circle. I am and always will be partial to wheel guns. I much prefer them even though I may see more I rifle range than revolver range.

I have tended to run a softer alloy for a number of years, no regrets. We have had hard,hard hard shoved down our throats for a long time.
44 and 357 magnums have been my main stay. A couple of 41's have entered the mix.
44's have always performed as Elmer said they would.
The 357, a lot of folks think or say the 158 is the darling for this cartridge. I have found time and again mine thrive on a 170-185 class bullet. All of them thrive on speed.
Saw a thread a gent had issues with his 357, don't know bullet or design. I run a WFN and LBT styles. I have yet to retrieve a projectile. Distances have been 25-100 yards and at various angles.

Playing with a 480 Blackhawk. I find it a resemblance of a 50 caliber muzzle loader, fired as a modern case in a wheel gun.
Ate up with cast, I did my own version of a grand slam some years back. Five deer, five different rifles, five different calibers, five deer in one season. I look to do the same with wheel guns I. The future.
Jeff

[reddog81]

With handguns the balistics aren't so much the problem, however the ability to hit what you're aiming at is much more difficult. Most people have trouble hitting a 8.5" x 11" piece of paper at 50 yard with a handgun. It's much easier to shoot a rifle at 100 yards than a handgun at 50.

I'm not saying it's impossible and that members of this forum can't do it because I know I can, however you're going to have to make more than a couple of trips to the range every year if you want to be proficient at hitting anything at 100 yards with a handgun.

[Ramjet-SS]

Game was plentiful and not as wary as game is today. So the BP rifles of yesteryear was effective because game was so plentiful and close range encounters were common. That said a well placed bullet or projectile will be and is effective. The delivery system or caliber is not as important as placement.

[missionary5155]

Good evening
From the reports I read it is believed there are at least if not more white tail corn crunchers today than there were when the Pilgrims landed.
As for close range shooting... The buck that I zipped this year was at the grand extreme range of 25 long steps thus my longest arrow shot ever taken. He had no idea what was happening until sliced.
But sure a modern cast slug made today and well placed will terminate any bean eater out there.

[wills]

The screwworm eradication program probably had a lot to do with the whitetail population increase.

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/our...ewworm_history

[9.3X62AL]

Great-Grandpa's '73 Winchester in 44/40 WCF has grassed more deer than all the rest of my firearms put together. It also taught manners to at least 2 marauding Depression-era black bears that beset my Grandfather's mountain ranch. To expand a bit upon the O/P's point--the BP 38/40 or 44/40 in a revolver is the ballistic twin of the 40 S&W pistol, and those same BP rounds in a lever rifle do a real good impression of a 10mm Auto.

[richhodg66]

The screwworm eradication program probably had a lot to do with the whitetail population increase.

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/our...ewworm_history

My Dad grew up in Denton and they kept some live stock, though it wasn't their livelihood, but he has related this to me before how important it was to treat injuries if a horse or cow got cut on barbed wire or something. I guess I never thought about its effect on wild animals before. How far north did screw worms range? You don't hear about it from old Kansans.

I have a hunting book from the early 50s somewhere and the chapter on white tail deer opens with there being only four states that didn't have huntable populations of them, Kansas being one of them. I have to laugh, we must have more deer per square mile here than anywhere else now. Obviously that isn't just because of screw worm eradication, lots of things probably went into it, but Kansas had it's first deer season in 1965 and only allowed 100,000 tags that year I've heard.

Sorry for the side track, I agree, old gun ballistics work, you just have to know what you're doing. I've had a few conversations about the 6.5 Creedmoor with people and my general impression is that the magnumitis craze is coming to an end. Since I started using cast only on deer, I've come to the realization that it doesn't take much if you can so your part as a hunter and shooter.

[244ack]

Many modern hunters substitute tech., magnum power, etc. for skill, knowledge and patience.

Amen to that

[Rodfac]

With handguns the balistics aren't so much the problem, however the ability to hit what you're aiming at is much more difficult. Most people have trouble hitting a 8.5" x 11" piece of paper at 50 yard with a handgun. It's much easier to shoot a rifle at 100 yards than a handgun at 50.

I'm not saying it's impossible and that members of this forum can't do it because I know I can, however you're going to have to make more than a couple of trips to the range every year if you want to be proficient at hitting anything at 100 yards with a handgun.

Well said....

[David2011]

I was amazed in East Texas how many hunters used a 7 Mag on the little white tails there. They’re 80 pounds average on a good day. Unless you’re on a pipeline or power line ROW you can’t see far enough to need more than a .30-30.