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Thread: Accurate 43-470S Slug Mold

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


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    Accurate 43-470S Slug Mold

    Before I knew that NOE was going to offer the 680-500-HB, I went off the deep end and bought the Accurate 43-470S slug mold.









    All my shooting still tells me that a 3" hull gets the best results from a 3" chamber as the freebore needs to be eliminated. That said, the only clear hulls I have left are 2 3/4," and I wanted to see the innards. I had problems with the BPI roll crimper; it seemed not to like the nose length of the Accurate bullet. Rather than mess around with it, I used a six-star crimp.



    Given the hull length and crimp issues, I'm happy with the results as it shows promise. The shots were noticeably quieter, not the loud snap of everything else that I have been shooting. The "snap" of the other slug loads might be all the plastic components in the stack. If the group size, the MOA, remains stable out to 100-yards, I would be happy for sure. I need some predictability right now.

    Two mornings ago, I went out to lube some more. Filled the cutout holes in the pan, turned the heat on, fed my dog, and returned. The bullets were gone, I had too much flame, and it melted my bullets. Something is always throwing up obstacles!

    I think I might have figured out a better lube cutter while hooking up a deer feeder to my tractor. I picked up a bushing off the bench which converts a Category 2 tractor's top link to a smaller category 1 implement. The steel bushing is about an 1" in length, and it looks like it might be a near perfect lube cutter. I can grind a sharp edge on the cutting end.

    Michael

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    That accuracy is real good. I probably missed it, but are you using lead or a lead alloy?
    Building a column can be interesting. You might try and trim the petals off a wad and use a couple few nitro cards to get it there.
    "Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
    James. C. Henderson

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmort View Post
    I probably missed it, but are you using lead or a lead alloy?
    60% linotype and 40% wheel weights, 29 BHN.
    Michael

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    When I walked up to the range yesterday, I shot three more of the Accurate bullets. This time the only difference was that they were in 3" hulls, rather than the 2" hulls, with an additional .25" wad to complete the stack. The results were dismal, MO Yardstick at 50-yards. One of the things that concern me with using a full-bore bullet is the jump across the free-bore in the chamber. Here is some sample of how far projectiles travel before the profile of the slug engages the throat, these are actual measurements.



    The saboted slugs are supported across the span, but the "bullet" has to jump an entire bullet length to engage the throat with a 3" hull and two bullet lengths with the 2" hull. Yesterday's three shots left the barrel leaded, and I think it is more to do with how square the bullet hit the throat than anything else. When taking the measurements; it was tough to get the bullet perfectly squared up in the throat.

    Getting ready to go out and clean the mess, Shooter's Choice Lead Remover will make short work of it though.
    Michael

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    I will defer to anyone, but the jump from 2.75” is not the issue in my opinion. I would consider a wad without petals and the least amount of nitro cardsfelt as necessary. The column is critical.
    "Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
    James. C. Henderson

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    My experience is that the less felt the better: A hard column on each side of a felt wad will eliminate any tendency to tilt. Get the load square is what I'm trying to convey and a complete felt column is not going to do that, also too much play to secure consistent crimp. Nice job, especially the lube cutter!. Firm that column up and that group will shrink by half with a decent trigger.

    I agree that the jump is not a biggie, as much as I usd to think so. With Lymans I actually got a toghter group in 2 3/4" in a 3" chamber. One question, why did you choose to use lead that hard? I didn't see powder data either and I understand. I had best results in solids of comparable weight with Alliant Steel. Sub for Blue dot loads of comparable weight. More velocity, less pressure too (from pressure testing results). Downside is more muzzle blast. NOT critical just trying to share from experience. Nice job!
    Last edited by Hogtamer; 11-20-2018 at 09:02 PM. Reason: added comments
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    Boolit Grand Master

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    I'm on the fence on this one. I would figure a hard card wad column would keep the slug aligned and more or less guided but...

    I made some straight ribbed slugs a few years ago when I started my Brenneke clone kick. These were full bore slugs, hollow base but with thick skirt and attached nitro card wads. The slug was fairly long and with attached wad should have easily spanned the gap but recovered slugs showed they tilted in the forcing cone which quite surprised me.

    The ribs were obviously crushed "diagonally"... at the nose and diagonally opposite at the base. I am still at a loss on that one! I can't think that opening the crimp could do it and since there was a stack of hard card wads and nitro card wads under a long slug it is a bit of a mystery to me. Brenneke seems to manage but they are very hard slugs where mine were ACWW. Maybe just bot hard enough?

    I will offer my observation that hard cad wads are not as solid as one might think when they get whacked with 10,000 PSI. There is certainly some give there. Possibly there was enough give in the wad column to allow the slug to cock a bit. I have no better explanation.

    While full bore slugs make sense to me, I have generally had better results using wad slugs... with the exception of round balls, they seem to perform equally well whether full bore or wad slugs.

    YMMV

    Longbow

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    Mike; I think the issue here is the length of the slugs. I have NEVER gotten anything but bad results from short fat pistol boolits. If the boolit is shorter than its diameter it just doesn't keep flying strait for very long after it leaves the barrel. If it is launched crooked it doesn't even fly strait for that long.

    I have a .44 call 190 gr. SWC mould that I thought was going to be just the ticket for my S&W 696. Wouldn't even keep the shots on a 2' square target at 25 yards!

    My .02

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    One question, why did you choose to use lead that hard?
    The 6/4 linotype/wheel weights are just a mix that I've worked my way into with my hunting bullets. Twenty years ago, I cleaned out an old print shop that leads presses; I picked up a little over 2K lbs of linotype. During the same period, I had fellows coming to hog hunt, and all I asked was for them to stop at a gas station that fixed flats on the way, and sees if they could get me some weights. With a year, I had over 2K lbs and had to ask them to stop. The town I live near has a lot of old homes that are continuously being rebuilt/updated. I become known as the guy take would take the plumbers lead. I stopped accepting it when I had about 500 lbs of it. Never found anyone giving away tin, but I managed to buy a huge stock from an old-school hardware store closing up shop. For grins, they through in quite a supply of Remington/Peters ammo for the 25, 30 & 32 Rem. It seems that these cartridges were very popular around here back in the day. I found some fellows that could use it and gave it to them.

    Okay, back to the question. All my shooting is related to hunting, and I do more than a fair share of that. I try to kill a hog every week of the year and have killed as many as a 126 in one year. I also do a lot of a deer hunting. All my alloy mixes have been toward that end. What I have ended up liking best was the 6/4 mix water quenched. It delivers a 29 BHN bullet that will not come apart and will exit an animal. Two large holes through an animal, especially a hog, are imperative in the thorn brush I live in. I cut a large hole with meplat and velocity. The 6/4 allows me to do that.

    All the Lee slugs I cast were plumbers lead and the first round of the NOE 680 as well. I did cast the second round of the NOE with the 6/4, and it shot better than the plain lead. With the Accurate, I'm just considering it a rifle bullet and cast it as such.



    I store my alloy in two of these boxes, with the tin and plumbers lead, they are still about 2K lbs each. To help balance my linotype and weights, I use 4/6 with all my handguns.


    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    I'm on the fence on this one. I would figure a hard card wad column would keep the slug aligned and more or less guided but...
    I started with the waxed felt wads based on a simple test; stack them up on the bench and see if they can handle the bullet sitting on them. I've trimmed petals on several pressure wads, and I haven't found one that can balance the bullet in place, within seconds, they topple over. The felt wads stood for days until I loaded the column. I think that if a pressure wad cup base and strut are used, they are going to need to be cemented its place, probably with an MP sealant product.

    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Mike; I think the issue here is the length of the slugs. I have NEVER gotten anything but bad results from short fat pistol boolits. If the boolit is shorter than its diameter it just doesn't keep flying strait for very long after it leaves the barrel. If it is launched crooked it doesn't even fly strait for that long.

    I have a .44 call 190 gr. SWC mould that I thought was going to be just the ticket for my S&W 696. Wouldn't even keep the shots on a 2' square target at 25 yards!
    This is where I'm at with the bullet Randy, I just don't think it is going to work and I though that as I was buying it. Accurate does have several longer versions, but they get heavy fast

    I hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving! My family is gathered here at the ranch and as soon as the ladies head to the Friday sales, I'm shooting slugs! I've got hogs waiting!
    Michael

  10. #10
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    I just slow down the 750 to 1,000 grain slugs
    Even at 1,000 fps, they do the job, and then some.
    The HammerHeads your have will keep on going, through and through.
    You could attach a tail to the Accurate slug
    As long as your barrel is the right diameter, the hard alloy will not be a problem. But Heaven help someone with a tighter barrel and that alloy.
    "Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
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  11. #11
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    Hollow base a heavy slug and it retains its bearing length but loses weight. It can have thick side walls so no collapsing. Heat treating will solve collapsing skirts too but real thick sidewalls shouldn't be an issue.

    I'm not much for short fat slugs... except the good 'ol round ball which I like for no good reason except they are round balls... and big ones at that!

    Alternately you might try screwing one of those BPI gas seals onto your short fat slug. That'll make it longer and more nose heavy (more important for smoothbore than rifled gun of course).

    Longbow

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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Alternately you might try screwing one of those BPI gas seals onto your short fat slug. That'll make it longer and more nose heavy (more important for smoothbore than rifled gun of course).
    That is a great idea; I have a bunch of the different length seals laying around, looking for work.

    I do not doubt that one of the bullets, did hit the bore off "axis." What a mess, but the Shooter's choice cleaned it up once I set to it. I might drop the BHN to 21 on the next batch and run them through the Mossberg, at least the removable barrel would make it easier to clean up.
    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Hollow base a heavy slug and it retains its bearing length but loses weight. It can have thick side walls so no collapsing. Heat treating will solve collapsing skirts too but real thick sidewalls shouldn't be an issue.

    I'm not much for short fat slugs... except the good 'ol round ball which I like for no good reason except they are round balls... and big ones at that!

    Alternately you might try screwing one of those BPI gas seals onto your short fat slug. That'll make it longer and more nose heavy (more important for smoothbore than rifled gun of course).

    Longbow
    That would work. If the slug is too short to maintain it's own flight path then attaching a Drag Chute to the rear will keep it headed in the same direction, and the spin it inherited on the way out of the barrel will only add to the stability.

    I picked up a Lyman Foster Slug Mould yesterday off Ebay which looked to be in good shape I will be adding that to my tests ASAP.

    Like to find some of those plug in wads to stuff in the rear of the Foster Slugs.

    On another note,,, the HB pin on those moulds is not too hard to modify or simply make a new one for. I think with thicker side walls might be a good direction to go.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Going radically off topic here so I'll be brief...

    KrackenFan69 sent me some of the Russian Paradox slugs to test, They use the same attached wads that Gualandi uses... I think. They are at least very similar and quite sturdy.

    The slugs have a hollow base (which real Paradox bullets did not) with a stem in the middle. The wads have a stem with a hole in it so fit into the hollow base and over the HB stem. Funny arrangement but I guess it adds rigidity to the wad attachment. Seems to work anyway.

    These wads are available on the internet through the guy that sells the slugs. Blood Trail was looking to get distributorship rights but not sure where that got to. He should have some of those wads though.

    Coincidentally, they fit my TC HB slugs perfectly!

    So to get somewhat back on topic...

    I think the long attached wads or slugs in shotcups get help guiding them into the bore much better than short fat slugs like the 73-470S sitting on tall wad columns. If a chamber was cut like a rifle chamber and the slug seated out in a brass cartridge then I think it could work pretty well.

    On that note, Greg Sappington has a reamer to cut 12 ga. chambers like rifle chambers but you'd have to start with a blank barrel I think... or have a really long chamber! He may be open to lending it or renting it out if anyone wants to try that. With a chamber like that and brass cartridges a guy would truly have a .73 cal. rifle. Not sure if blank barrels are available for pump guns but Greg has blank custom barrels for bolt guns.

    That's a project a little beyond me I think but would be interesting.

    Longbow

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check