Adding Copper Using speaker wire.

[GregLaROCHE]

I know I read somewhere in the last six months about using speaker wire to add to alloy to toughen it up. The very fine strands allow it to melt and mix with lead at lower than normal melting temperature for copper. Does anyone else remember anything about this?

Thanks

[Hannibal]

Metals melt at particular temperatures dependent upon their composition. Size matters not.

[BK7saum]

Never done it, but I believe the wires are tinned and the tinned copper dissolves into the alloy at normal casting temps. High temps are not required.

[DougGuy]

If a 6,000+ degree flame won't melt a torch tip made out of copper, what makes you think a 700 degree lead pot will melt or dissolve it tinned or not?

[BK7saum]

First of all, your 6000+ degree flame is burning outside the tip and not transferring the heat to the tip. The melting point of copper is only 1984 degrees Fahrenheit.

Secondly, I said I've never done it. I am only reporting conflicting info to what Hannibal said. That info has been reported on CB by folks who stated they have added copper to their alloy by using tinned fine strand copper wire (speaker wire). Its not a matter of melting, but solubility.

[BK7saum]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-into-Lead-Tin

[Grmps]

Some people use copper sulfate (root killer)
There are a couple threads about that.

[Hannibal]

I'd encourage skepticism regarding things read on the internet, BK7.

[BK7saum]

I'd encourage skepticism regarding things read on the internet, BK7.

Absolutely, i don't take anything at face value. I just responded in response to the OPs question where others posted it was possible and they had accomplished it. You said it was not possible or dismissed it as being possible, which prompted me to post what I did.

Then DougGuy jumped in as well with a similar statement to yours. "If a 6,000+ degree flame won't melt a torch tip made out of copper, what makes you think a 700 degree lead pot will melt or dissolve it tinned or not?"

The thread I referenced was from our own site where our members reported it was done. That was in 2010. I have come across other, similar threads, that one was at the top of the list in a search I did. You and DougGuy have been members here for 5 years. Surely, you have come across some similar threads yourself? Please go resurrect the older thread and call our members out as liars for what they stated they had done.

I haven't attempted adding Cu to. Pb/Sb/Sn alloy myself, but I dont think I'd call someone a liar, especially our own members without some testing or research of my own. What happened to the open-minded attitude that supported trying new methods of casting, coating, and shooting cast boolits?

The solubility of Cu is 0.7% in Pb. With an alloy, that could be higher or lower depending on the interaction of the elements in the alloy.

Again, I HAVE NOT added Cu to a Pb alloy by placing tinned Cu wire in my melting pot, therefore I am not saying with 100% certainty that it is doable. I was just reporting that others on this forum stated they had and it is scientifically plausible based upon the chemical properties of Cu, Pb, and Sn.

[jsizemore]

Post #4

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hlight=speaker

You don't necessarily need to tin the wire before adding. Drop the tin in and add your copper wire in a little at a time and stir. When it's hit it's limit the wire will stop going into solution. You don't need much.

[john.k]

For the same reason copper dissolves in mercury .....at room temperature.

[Jniedbalski]

Also you can add small amounts af silver to your pot just like small amounts of copper

[Jniedbalski]

It’s like the aluminum pistons with silicone in it called hiperutetitc spelled wrong. They can only add so much silicone to the aluminum before it quits going into solution . like ice tea with to much sugar in it

[Hossfly]

What is the melting point of sb=1167’f

[Hannibal]

Absolutely, i don't take anything at face value. I just responded in response to the OPs question where others posted it was possible and they had accomplished it. You said it was not possible or dismissed it as being possible, which prompted me to post what I did.

Then DougGuy jumped in as well with a similar statement to yours. "If a 6,000+ degree flame won't melt a torch tip made out of copper, what makes you think a 700 degree lead pot will melt or dissolve it tinned or not?"

The thread I referenced was from our own site where our members reported it was done. That was in 2010. I have come across other, similar threads, that one was at the top of the list in a search I did. You and DougGuy have been members here for 5 years. Surely, you have come across some similar threads yourself? Please go resurrect the older thread and call our members out as liars for what they stated they had done.

I haven't attempted adding Cu to. Pb/Sb/Sn alloy myself, but I dont think I'd call someone a liar, especially our own members without some testing or research of my own. What happened to the open-minded attitude that supported trying new methods of casting, coating, and shooting cast boolits?

The solubility of Cu is 0.7% in Pb. With an alloy, that could be higher or lower depending on the interaction of the elements in the alloy.

Again, I HAVE NOT added Cu to a Pb alloy by placing tinned Cu wire in my melting pot, therefore I am not saying with 100% certainty that it is doable. I was just reporting that others on this forum stated they had and it is scientifically plausible based upon the chemical properties of Cu, Pb, and Sn.

I never called anyone a liar, those are YOUR words.

We could argue definitions and semantics at length, but it is not an exercise I am interested in.

The short answer is, copper can not be melted into lead alloy in a casting pot by the home casting hobbiest.

The composition of the 'copper' speaker wire and highly elevated casting pot temperatures are likely what produces the results.

No matter, I can see you are convinced. Enjoy your casting, and I apologize for any insult. I assure you none was intended.

[popper]

Normally the wire is tinned to prevent oxidation of the copper which occurs rapidly when heated.

[BK7saum]

Hannibal, apology accepted and extended back to you as well. I probably shouldn't have responded with "calling people a liar", but when they say they did and you say it can't be done, that is where I went with my response. I am not 100% convinced as I haven't done it, but I do generally respect the research and testing that is put forth by those on this site.

But by your definition, how do you "melt" lead into mercury at room temp to form an amalgam. Chemistry and elemental interaction are sometimes strange and defy normal logic.

Good luck in your casting and shooting. No offense intended as well.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving, Brad

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

From anecdotal evidence, I'd say Copper is absorbed into a boolit alloy (from copper jackets) during smelting/fluxing of range scrap. One source of Range scrap ingots that I've purchased, was tested to have 0.25% Cu.

PS: notice I used the word absorbed and NOT melted. I think the fluxing action is the driver of that absorption.

[jmort]

Hypereutectic
You cannot melt antimony in a lead alloy, in a common home melter, but it will disolve to a point, 3 to 5% as I remember it.
I do not know if copper disolves in a lead/lead alloy, like antimony.

[farmerjim]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/arch...p/t-86682.html