Cast 30-30 problems

[Hasselbach]

I’m using RCBS full length sizing die and lime in expander die and a Lee 170 grain flat point casting mold, I’m checking all my finished products with a lime in Ammo checker which each and load drops correctly into the checker but out of 7, 2 would only close the lever completely when extracted I did see the bullet engaging the rifling. Not sure what’s going on here becoming very discouraged with casting for this rifle


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[Hasselbach]

One thing to add is I did notice my bullets are not seating straight. Is that a die issue or case?


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[Czech_too]

There are a number of possibles here. The first thing I would do is adjust your overall length to the point where the bullet is not engraving on the rifling.
Make up a dummy round w/o a crimp and starting with your present overall length adjust the seating die accordingly.

As to the concentricity, that's a whole 'nother animal. It could be the seating stem is not 'correct' for that type of bullet. That's an easy fix.
It could be the case neck is out, possible cause sizing die.

How much of a flare are you doing on the brass with the expander die, I assume this is an "M" die?

[Land Owner]

To correct concentricity, lightly chamfer the case mouth inside and out with a chamfering tool. It is not necessary to flare the case mouth of a bottle neck cartridge for cast boolet insertion if the case has been chamfered. The chamfer will allow the boolet base to slide into the case mouth on an interference fit without scraping lead off of the sides of the boolet.

Follow Czech-too's advice to adjust overall length and use the correct boolet seating stem.

[randyrat]

-Tight chamber and no throat? Could be your problem

- Check your case lengths, trim to all the same lengths. You may be bulging the case just a bit with a long brass or two when seating bullets

If you want to flare the brass, just flare a little bit or Chamfer as noted above. I like to flare just a little bit.

[Ben]

I've seen many 30-30 reloaders who have trouble chambering a round.
They often times forget to remove the flare from the case. If you have a light crimp ( not heavy ) if your OAL is correct, the round should fall into the chamber with no resistance.

Ben

[Uncle Grinch]

Too heavy of a crimp often causes a bulge in the neck or a wrinkle at the shoulder. Both will cause hard chambering.

[Tatume]

I use that bullet with no issues. Ben's suggestion that the case mouth flare may be hindering chambering is definitely a possibility.

Am I correct in surmising that by "lime in" your mean Lyman?

Your statement that "bullets are not seating straight" is a concern. Bullets that are not seated concentrically with the case, and ultimately the chamber, cannot be expected to shoot well.

You should trim cases, and afterwards chamfer and deburr case mouths, but definitely also flare case mouths when loading cast bullets. It doesn't take much for a gas checked bullet like your Lee, but accuracy will suffer if it is not done. After loading, and in a separate operation, apply a moderate crimp. This will remove the flare, and also prevent bullets from being pushed into the cases by spring pressure in your tubular magazine.

The statement that you see "the bullet engaging the rifling" may or may not be an issue. If slight rifling marks are seen on the short driving band in front of the crimp groove, and the loaded cartridges extract without pulling bullets from the cases, then don't worry about it. This may actually enhance accuracy. On the other hand, if the bore-riding portion of the bullet, forward of this band, is showing rifling marks, then something is wrong. One possibility is that you are not holding your mold fully closed, and bullets are oversized. This should be corrected.

The Lee C309-170-F is an excellent mold and mine produces outstanding accuracy. Don't give up on it.

[Ben]

Too heavy of a crimp often causes a bulge in the neck or a wrinkle at the shoulder. Both will cause hard chambering.

Excellent advice.

[Dan Cash]

It is not impossible that your die is miss cut. I have an old Herters .30-30 sizing die that produces an angled neck.

[Hasselbach]

Thank you all. Great information and advise. I will post some pictures to give all an idea of the issue. I do believe it is a bullet seating issue cause all brass after sizing chambered correctly. Another food for thought was I only see “rifling” on one side of the boolet.


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[Jackpine]

Too heavy of a crimp often causes a bulge in the neck or a wrinkle at the shoulder. Both will cause hard chambering.

Went to a Lee Factory Crimp die for exactly that reason.

[Hasselbach]

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[Hasselbach]

That is a picture of the same round just rolled. Also I made some dummies without crimp or just the slightest crimp to remove flair and same problem


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[popper]

Neck on 30/30 is very thin and is easily miss formed. Size some, roll on a flat surface looking for neck wobble. Do the same with expanded neck but no flare. Seat boolits in dummy rounds, look for wobble. It's a FN boolit, the seater stem should be FN also. Often I will tap the boolit in just a tad then rotate case and finish seating - appears to make sure seating is straight. Seat deeper till you don't chambering problems. A case gauge will NOT do anything but check H.S. and case length. I seldom find a case that needs to be trimmed.
Your finger is in the way but it does look like the boolit is in crooked. What is going on with the neck? Some kind of funny ridge at the mouth. Is that taper crimped? I use the Lee FCD crimp for rifle. Soft alloy as there is a seater stem ridge on the nose (or you haven't expanded the neck enough). Take your pic with the rim off an edge so the case is flat we get optical illusions now.

[Land Owner]

That's a HEAVY roll crimp you've made there. Lighten it up a little bit.

On any bullet, if the crimp being applied is heavy enough to cause any visible deformation, you are over crimping!

[Ben]

Thank you all. Great information and advise. I will post some pictures to give all an idea of the issue. I do believe it is a bullet seating issue cause all brass after sizing chambered correctly. Another food for thought was I only see “rifling” on one side of the boolet.


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Looks like a pretty hard crimp, you may want to back off on the hard crimp a bit.

[Hasselbach]

do you think its the crimping stage that may be moving the boolit in the neck? I thought something was wrong about that crimp because I set the die to touch case mouth then an additional 1/4 turn like the die set instructs you to.

[Ben]

Too much crimp in the photos I see.
Have you stated what dia. cast bullets that you're trying to seat in the neck ?

[FredBuddy]

My experience led me here:

First, I now use a NOE neck expander plug that
expands the neck to .313 x .309. RCBS dies use
a .305 expander, the cowboy dies use .307.
With the NOE, the step (.313) allows the boolit
to start straight. The .309 allows smoother
final seating, nearly eliminating crooked
seating, AKA runout.

Second, I have found that the Redding taper crimp die,
instead of the roll crimp of the RCBS (and others),
puts a smooth and straight finish on the neck,
making even the tightest chambers happy.

There are volumes of tips on this site that help
solve problems like this. Of special help to me
are posts by Outpost 75 (and others).

I have spent 2 years foolin' around with
boolits in 6 different 30-30's and I'm still
learnin' stuff. What a blast !!!