Replicating FBI load in .38 S&W (NOT Special)

[gun toting monkeyboy]

I apologize if I am posting this one in the wrong part of the forum, but I wasn't sure exactly where I should put this one. If there is a better place, Mods please move it there.

Okay, I am a huge fan of .38 S&W. And while I also like .38 Special, I really enjoy getting the most out of the older, shorter cartridge. And I should note, that this post is only about solid frame revolvers, not the cheap break top American ones. I have been having a lot of fun replicating the old .38 Special FBI loads with the soft Speer 158 grain LSWCHP bullets in my .38 Special guns. It shoots to the point of aim in many of my older, fixed-sight revolvers. But it got me to thinking. These bullets are really, really soft. And they even expand when fired from a 2" barrel. The original load for many of the older .38 S&W guns is a 146 to 148 grain lead bullet. Has anybody else tried loading the 158 grain LSWCHP bullets in .38 S&W cases before? If so, what were your results like. I usually use a 200 grain bullet to replicate the .38-200 British military load, or the .38 Colt Super Police load, and that works reasonably well. Especially in guns that have the sights regulated for them. But how close do you think I can get to the FBI load? It is obviously going to have to be moving slower to stay within the pressure range of the cartridge. However, with a 4 to 5 inch barrel, do you think I can come reasonably close?

-Mb

[Outpost75]

The S&W Model 32 and 33 Terrier and Regulation Police and the Ruger India Model Police Service Six in .380 Rimmed can be loaded heavily enough to expand with properly designed soft cast bullets of 1:30 or 1:40 tin-lead alloy, about 800 fps, but these loads substantially exceed SAAMI MAP for the .38 S&W and should not be fired in the older Colt Police Positives and S&W Victory models. The S&W Victory model, even if in good condition should not be loaded heavier than standard pressures for the .38 Special, about 16,000 vs. 13,000 psi. for the .38 S&W.

38 S&W Loads Showing Effect of Cylinder Gap and Barrel length:

Firearm____________S&W 32-1____ColtPP______Ruger____S&W Victory
Barrel length__________2”___________4”________4”________5 ”
Cyl. Gap_____________0.005_______0.005______.005______. 009
Vintage Ammunition________________________________________
FN 82 Mk2z_________577,8 Sd_____616, 10_____618,19 ___571,22
Kynoch 146LRN______623,26 ______649, 31_____650,22___685, 22
WRA 146LRN(WW2)__659, 10______701, 13_____727, 5____681, 14
Rem-UMC Colt NP150FN_668, 22____768, 14____765, 15____754, 10

Modern Commercial Ammunition
Fiocchi 146 LRN_______706, 12____809, 21_____820, 23___709, 24
R-P 146 LRN__________603, 14____674, 12____697,18____627,22
W-W 146 LRN_________586, 18____593, 36____662, 29____620, 19

Cast Bullet Handloads

Firearm__________S&W 32-1___ Colt Pol.***____S&W Victory
Barrel length__________2”_________4”_________5”
Cyl. Gap_____________0.005______.005_______.009

Accurate 36-151H
2.5 Bullseye__________629, 8_____724, 12_____674, 12
3.7 AutoComp________605, 19____730, 19_____732, 20
4.2 AutoComp +P_____754, 26____not fired____not fired- Modern Guns Only - Do Not Exceed

Accurate 36-155D
1.7 Bullseye__________470, 18____495, 27____493, 23_Min. to Exit Barrel
2.5 Bullseye__________629, 8_____727, 12____680, 25_Fact.dup.load
6.3#2400____________696, 26____801, 20____784, 24_Max. Do Not Exceed

Accurate 36-176P
2.5 Bullseye__________635, 9____680, 12______669, 19
3.0 AutoComp________521, 15____542, 31_____558, 23

Accurate 36-190T
1.7 Bullseye_________485, 9_____545, 15_____496, 18_Min. to Exit Barrel
2.1 Bullseye_________547, 15____630, 16_____572, 15
3.0 AutoComp_______668, 4_____732, 15_____674, 20_Max. Do Not Exceed
2.5 Bullseye_________645, 10____686, 5______704, 8_Max. Do Not Exceed 

Attachment 230375Attachment 230376Attachment 230377Attachment 230378Attachment 230379

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Why would the Regulation Police be considered to be a stronger action than the Police Positive? It is thinner and lighter in every respect. I am not trying to be argumentative here, I am just wondering where that comes from. Also, for that list of load data you posted, I can't find what bullet weight it is for. I have been sticking to the load data Ken Waters put out religiously, so I am not too worried about blowing myself up. My main goal is to see what I can do within those parameters to get close to the FBI load with the soft Speer bullets. Thanks for all of that information.

-Mb

[Outpost75]

Why would the Regulation Police be considered to be a stronger action than the Police Positive? It is thinner and lighter in every respect. I am not trying to be argumentative here, I am just wondering where that comes from. Also, for that list of load data you posted, I can't find what bullet weight it is for. I have been sticking to the load data Ken Waters put out religiously, so I am not too worried about blowing myself up. My main goal is to see what I can do within those parameters to get close to the FBI load with the soft Speer bullets. Thanks for all of that information.

-Mb

Regulation Police is not stronger than Police Positive. You are correct, but for test purposes we fired some of the warmish handloads in the S&W to see how many rounds it took to develop noticeable cylinder end play. The gun didn't loosen up with the loads listed in the table for the 100 or so rounds we fired in testing, but if you want the gun to last do not use handloads which exceed the velocity of the Fiocchi factory loads fired in the same gun.

The designators for the Accurate brand molds are the nominal diameter and the bullet weight when cast from wheelweight alloy. The letter suffix is used to distinguish bullets of different designs but the same weight from each other.

I would be VERY careful of the Ken Waters loads, as he none of his loads were pressure tested and some I know to be on the warm side.

Below is test data fired by Larry Gibson for the Accurate 36-155D over 2.5 gr Bullseye (Alliant). This is a very good load demonstrating excellent accuracy potential and a MAP of 16,600 psi which is very close to the R-P factory load. Note the 1st shot was out of the previously 2400 fouled barrel and was out of the remaining 9 shot group. Those 9 shots went into 1.32” which is very good.

Attachment 230397