Got me a Rifled Barrel for my old A5

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tomme: "The limiting factor is my eyes not being able to see the front sight."

"Progressive Lenses" and Fiber Optic Sights is the fix.

The stock Front Sights on both these barrels are stock Browning Sights and are barely visible. They are getting replaced with FO sights today. See Pics,,, In any kind of Daylight you can't miss these. I use this type of sight on most of my pistols and shotguns.

I have about 3-4 different factory slugs on hand. Mostly different Federals, Tactical LE, Low Recoil, 2 3/4" Maximums at 1610 fps. Will try others. I really want to try some of those Lightfield Slugs and some Brenneke's thru the smooth barrel.

I've got some BPI DGS Slugs that I got from the Italian makers before BPI had them. I only have 5 of them but they will serve to decide if I need to buy more. Probably not as I have the Lyman Sabot Slugs and will probably get a Lyman Foster mould too. Plenty of stuff to shoot thru that gun.

The Federal LE are what I shot at Front Sight last month, and they worked OK out of my M 500 with the Vang Comped barrel. Over there we shoot slugs at 35 and 50 yards on steel and paper targets so I don't need super duper accuracy from those. Still right at 2-2.5" at 50 yards is better than most get.


The Lymans will go thru both barrels but am looking at the Hastings Barrel for the "rifle like" accuracy,,, If it exists?

BB: what kind of accuracy do you get out of your Hastings Barrel with FB Slugs? 650 gr should put a pretty serious hole in stuff!

Randy

[bikerbeans]

Randy,

3 to 4 inches at 60 yards with the hastings open sights shooting offhand. I have a redfield saddle mount but never shot these slugs with a scope. Same slugs in Marlin 512 with 4x scope will cut the group in half. Limiting factor on accuracy for me is the heavy recoil, followed by crappy SG triggers. I solved the recoil problem by building a fully rifled 410 +P+ lever action.

BB

[centershot]

Try Win 2 3/4 fosters. They have always been the most accurate of the regular foster slugs. Remington has always been the least accurate. The Federal Trueball has been very accurate also but has been too expensive for me to shoot on a regular basis.

And no the slugs will not spin from going through the choke or from flying through the air. Someone is still living in the 1800's if they believe that.

Smoothbores can be accurate if you get a good one. My 870 can hit a 12" steel plate at 200yds with win fosters if you know where to aim. And that is 3 out of 4 shots. So it is not a hail mary type of shot. The limiting factor is my eyes not being able to see the front sight.

tommieboy, it has been proven that rifled slugs really DO spin as they fly. They don't spin like a rifle bullet but they do spin slowly. A "square" slug doesn't require much spin to stabilize, just as a 12 Ga. RB only needs a 1:100 or 1:120 rifling to stabilize. But rifled slugs DO spin!

https://wethearmed.com/shotguns/do-r...773175fe4d706c

[longbow]

Randy:

Are you aware that the Russian moulds are available in a Gualandi DGS clone along with the wads?

They also make a Tusker clone and Paradox clone though both are lighter weight and use the same attached wads as the Gualandi clone. The Gualandi clone appears to be near identical to the DGS unlike the other two which are similar but certainly not near identical.

Blood Trail has some of these moulds and may be able to tell you how well they worked. He may even have some slugs you could try.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

I got a Lyman Foster Slug mould off Ebay the other day and I can play with it. The HB Pin on those moulds is not that hard to duplicate and I would want to make it smaller diameter to increase the weight and make the base stronger. Maybe taper it as well.

The Russian Moulds are interesting, but the thing that is most interesting is the wad with the Hose Barb on the end which plugs into the base of the slug.

That wad becomes the feathers on the shuttle cock and can be stuffed into anything that has a similar diameter.

Randy

[RMc]

tommieboy, it has been proven that rifled slugs really DO spin as they fly. They don't spin like a rifle bullet but they do spin slowly. A "square" slug doesn't require much spin to stabilize, just as a 12 Ga. RB only needs a 1:100 or 1:120 rifling to stabilize. But rifled slugs DO spin!

https://wethearmed.com/shotguns/do-r...773175fe4d706c

Well you missed: Do Rifled Slugs Spin from a smoothbore? Part 2

https://wethearmed.com/shotguns/do-r...thbore-part-2/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

After the original discussion of this topic, I wondered if any studies of Rifled Slug rotation had been conducted.

Original discussion here:
http://wethearmed.com/shotguns/do-ri...-a-smoothbore/

After some searching, I located this 1991 DOJ/FBI Report which documents slow rotation as a contributing factor to rifled slug accuracy:


"The slight rotation imparted by the ribs reduces the effect of manufacturing irregularities. In tests performed by Winchester-Western, the slug rotation was confirmed, resulting in consistently smaller groups for rifled slugs than unrifled slugs…"

"The basic Foster slug, however, remains a
hollow lead cup, heavier at the point. It has 14
small angled ribs swaged into the side of the
slug. The rifling tends to be obliterated by the
passage of the slug through the barrel, especially
through a full choke. Some spin does result
from the ribs, however, and tests show a very
slow spin of approximately one turn in 24 feet
of travel to one turn in 129 feet of travel,
depending upon the choke used. In 1980,
Remington and other slug manufacturers increased
the weight of 12-gauge rifle slugs to a
full 1 oz.
Neither Brenneke nor Foster slugs depend
upon the rifling ribs or projectile spin for stability.
The slugs are stable because they travel
through the air like a sand-filled sock with the
heavier toe forward (O'Connor 1965), unlike
symmetrical lead balls (Figure 3). The trailing
light end acts as a stabilizer. The slight rotation
imparted by the ribs reduces the effect of manufacturing
irregularities. In tests performed
by Winchester-Western, the slu.g rotation was
confirmed, resulting in consistently smaller
groups for rifled slugs than unrifled slugs
(Sterett 1966)."

Crime Laboratory, Digest April 1991 - Volume 18, No.2

Full report here:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digi...32229NCJRS.pdf

What I find most interesting is the varying rate of spin noted for different amounts of choke constriction.

[6pt-sika]

You brought up all this stuff about a rifled A-5 barrel and I found a used rifled Hastings A-5 Mag barrel today so I bought hopefully I’ll have it by Friday .

[W.R.Buchanan]

pt: See how this stuff works? I've bought 2 barrels, 2 slug moulds a bunch of Wads and still need some more.

Still working on the A5 to get it to hold the bolt open after last shot. Found www.artsgunshop.com he is supposed to be Ex Browning and appears to know these guns inside out.

My gun is a 1950 model which doesn't have the Speed Feed Cartridge Lifter which is exactly what I wanted.. My '64 model has it and it is not something you want on a Competition Gun.

Once I get the bolt to stay open after the last shot I'll have it dialed in.

I got the Hastings Barrel in today and it is nice.The Groove dia is .730 and the lands are .715 or .0075 on a side deep. The interior of the barrel is a mirror finish and I have to say it's a pretty nice barrel.

I also got the Lyman Foster Slug Mould and it is decent as well.

A few doodads still out but should be shooting this one soon.

Randy

[6pt-sika]

pt: See how this stuff works? I've bought 2 barrels, 2 slug moulds a bunch of Wads and still need some more.

Still working on the A5 to get it to hold the bolt open after last shot. Found www.artsgunshop.com he is supposed to be Ex Browning and appears to know these guns inside out.

My gun is a 1950 model which doesn't have the Speed Feed Cartridge Lifter which is exactly what I wanted.. My '64 model has it and it is not something you want on a Competition Gun.

Once I get hth bolt to stay open after the last shot I'll have it dialed in.

Randy

At the moment I have a pair of A-5 12 Mags one from 68 and the other from 71 . And I have four barrels for the two actions .


I've got my eyes open for an A-5 20 MAG . Hastings of course doesn't make a rifled 20 gauge barrel but so be it .


Incidently the 71 12 MAG I've had a couple weeks , bought it mainly for the 32" full choke barrel . Shot it twice to make sure it functioned okay and then I went to a turkey shoot last Friday . Shot 12 rounds and was in the money 3 times . I hadn't been to a turkey shoot in 25 years .

[W.R.Buchanan]

Still working to get the bolt to stay open after last shot or when manually cycled.

Good videos on working the A5 at www.artsgunshop.com. This guy and his 3 sons are the A5 gurus !!!

As soon as I get this problem fixed I'll start shooting slugs thru both barrels. Pretty excited about this, as is everyone else here right now.

There is a good variety of projectiles to try out and some look really promising.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well I thought I had it beat yesterday but Murphy won out again.

The problem with this gun has been the bolt not staying open after the last shot or when the gun is empty.

After talking to Art's son Brad I changed out the Carrier Latch and Viola,,, the bolt stayed open!

Except now the Carrier is up and won't go down without pushing the button which drops the bolt. I almost lost a finger to that little error in judgement.

What has to happen is the new Carrier Latch has to be tweaked so it works right . I can't do this as I have no idea how much or how it needs to be tweaked.

Gun going to Arts Gun Shop in MO today.

I know my limitations. Punt!

Randy

Gone! Be back in a couple of weeks.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK guys: Since I am waiting for my gun to reappear I decided I would load some of my new STI Slugs.

I went down the roll crimping rat hole today and reloaded 5 once fired Federal Slug Hulls that were previously Roll Crimped. I did one Fiocchi hull last night but it kind of sucked so I used some Feds I had collected for today's excursion.

I used the BPI 12 ga. Roll Crimper that I have had sitting in the box for several years now. I did the set up on my Milling machine simply because I could control the speed down to a Gnats ****. I started at 150 RPM's and it worked good so I left it there.

I did the first operations of the loading on my Pacific DL266. That was depriming/sizing, re-priming and dropping powder., then to seat the STI Slug/Sabot combo I used a wad guide ( A MEC I think)I had in my Lee Loader Kit with my little Sinclair Arbor Press to shove the whole mess thru the mouth of the hull. No way was it going in without a wad guide. I had to use a .40 S&W case as a spacer to get the slug past the the fingers on the wad guide.

Then back to the press to seat the wad and apply 40-50 lbs of pressure on it.

Then over to the mill for the Roll Crimp.

Once I figured out how to hold onto the hull and lining it up with the crimp tool, I just started the spindle and started running it down. The stop was high so I keep lowering it until the crimp looked complete.

I went back to the first one on the left and gave it a little more after I was done with the other 4 all ended up at 2-5/16" +/-.01-.15. They all have a decent taper on them so they should feed smoothly in the A5.

One thing I did that just seemed appropriate was to wipe some Vaseline on the inside of the crimp tool. It worked and whereas the first one didn't look perfect the other 4 did and I am reasonably happy with the outcome. But since I have no idea what I am doing I will defer to you's guys for constructive criticism.

See pics below.

So what do you think?

Randy

[Cap'n Morgan]

Randy

It looks as if you are using a roll crimper with straight pins. While this is an easy way to make a crimper, the pins will have a tendency to flatten the top of finished crimp. A good roll crimper will have the profile you see in the picture on the right. This is more difficult to produce as the profile must have raised points along the profile (at least three to balance the process) to help start the edge of the hull rolling.

The MEC "Slugger" crimp dies are injection molded in glass-filled plastic. This makes it easy to produce a smooth radius in the critical area and this is no doubt why they works so well.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK I got the A5 back today and was disappointed that you can't get the carrier to move out of the way unless you hold the carrier release button down. Apparently this is the way JMB designed it. Which IMHO sucks.

My gun is an older 1950 model gun and it has the one piece carrier. Luckily it will accept later 2 piece carrier (Speed Feed model)which will allow it to be loaded without pushing the button. So I have to find one. Anyone have a 2 piece A5 Carrier for a 12 ga? I have some cosmetic work to do on the gun including some wood refinish, re-cutting the checkering, Different Front Sights for both barrels, and I am going to try to mod the carrier so it works right. Also mods to the bolt handle and bolt release button to make them bigger.

The pics below have the Hastings Rifled barrel mounted but the Smoothbore Slug Barrel looks the same.

I also got a Lee 1 oz slug mould which for some unknown reason seems to make perfect slugs that weigh 440.1 gr after about 10 pours, when the Lyman mould makes a good one about every 5 pours. The good ones I made with that mould weigh .441 gr?

I hear so much BS on the inter web about how Lee Tools are ***'s and yet it's funny that I have never had a Lee Mould that didn't work right from the first one I bought in 1978 which I still have. I have had several Lyman Moulds that didn't work including the Foster Slug Mould and a 173 gr .357 SWC mould that never dropped even one good boolit. It is long gone and I apologize to the person who bought it.

Anyway I made 90 or so good ones to load up as soon as my Hull Trimmer shows up. These will be my practice rounds and loaded light.

Randy

[longbow]

Both my Lee slug moulds have worked well for me. The 1 oz. is old style and the 7/8 oz. is new style. The 1 oz. needed a very minor deburring when I got it then it cast perfectly and slugs drop out. The 7/8 oz. requires a tap or two on the hinge pin but nothing out of the ordinary. Both make nice slugs. No complaints.

It'll be interesting to see how you do with those in the rifled gun.

Seems to me you said you have the Federal wads with quite tapered petals? If so they should be good for the Lee slugs which do have some taper to them. Mine taper from about 0.685" at the nose to 0.667" (IIRC) at the tail but considerable taper.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

No Federals just Claybuster WAA12 clones and the Claybuster Blue slug wads. The Lee Slugs don't really fit into the WAA12 clones without something to shim them up and then they are .740 at the mouth of the was which is a little big.

They fit well in the blue wads but again will need to be shimmed up. I have over shot cards coming which should fix that problem.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Very close to having the A5 fully operational. Found a old style Carrier Latch that I needed on Ebay yesterday and snagged it and another Old style (Square Threads)Mag Tube End Cap that I can make into an extended mag tube.

The only real source for parts for older A5's is now Ebay where guys part them out. Browning stopped supporting all A5's about a month or so ago and sold all their parts to some outfit in St Louis.

But I got a workable Carrier Latch which I can use as a template to mod the new one I put in the gun.

It annoys me when outfits get too caught up in the bean counter mentality, and especially when they stop supporting a Flagship Model like the A5 which was JMB's crowning achievement. With proper parts support those guns would still be running 100 years from now and I'm sure many will anyway unless this country goes to pot and the left takes over and disarms us. Which is exactly what they want to do every day. When it happens (and it probably will eventually) the country falls. I personally vote for Civil War before they win.

[centershot]

Very close to having the A5 fully operational. Found a old style Carrier Latch that I needed on Ebay yesterday and snagged it and another Old style (Square Threads)Mag Tube End Cap that I can make into an extended mag tube.

The only real source for parts for older A5's is now Ebay where guys part them out. Browning stopped supporting all A5's about a month or so ago and sold all their parts to some outfit in St Louis.

But I got a workable Carrier Latch which I can use as a template to mod the new one I put in the gun.

It annoys me when outfits get too caught up in the bean counter mentality, and especially when they stop supporting a Flagship Model like the A5 which was JMB's crowning achievement. With proper parts support those guns would still be running 100 years from now and I'm sure many will anyway unless this country goes to pot and the left takes over and disarms us. Which is exactly what they want to do every day. When it happens (and it probably will eventually) the country falls. I personally vote for Civil War before they win.

I've been waiting.....................................

[Drm50]

My family are A5 people from way back and it just so happens Im from Ohio where we had to shoot
slugs for deer until just a few years ago. I have 3 12g A5s and my brother is heavy into them he has
several in 20, 16 and 12g. I made my slug gun out of a Light 12 that had barrel damage. My rear sight is off a Rem 700, the old model sight that has the leaf and riser. The steel in these is easier to
silver solder than the newer ones of cast metal. My front is Williams Shorty Ramp with Marbel Patridge blade. My barrel is just under 24" and it shoots 3" at 100yds consistently, off bench. My Bro
has Jap A5 slug gun with scope and his does the same. I have built Slug guns out of every model gun you can think of and 3" is about the best I have gotten. I'm not familiar with the games but is a
rifled barrel really a plus for the ranges shot? The rifled barrels are more accurate and excel at over
100yds. I fooled with rifled barrels and ended up sticking with my smooth bores but mine was for deer hunting purposes and my shots are 100yd or less in cover I hunt.

[W.R.Buchanan]

DRM50: I have both a Browning Smoothbore Slug barrel and a Hastings Rifled barrel for the gun.

For the 3 Gun Shoots and trips to Front Sight I'll use the Smoothbore as the ranges are <50 yards. For Hunting I'd use the Rifled Barrel just cuz.

I really want someone over here in the US to come up with a Driven Boar Hunt so I have an excuse to use the Rifled Barrel on moving targets with slugs. I already have a mount designed for a small Red Dot sight that takes the place of the elevator in the rear sight. "American Wild Boar Fever!"

Both the barrels have the standard Browning Rifle sights and I have put a Green Fiber Optic front sight on the smoothbore. I haven't been able to move the front sight on the Hastings barrel and have to make a pusher to get it out then it will get one too.

This gun has been not been shot that much, but appears to have been carried alot. I have some wood work to do to it to bring it back to it's full glory, but I can already see that the gun will look nice when done. Its got the nice old style dark wood.

Luckily I don't have to refinish the wood to shoot it.

Coming soon.

Randy