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Thread: 1:10 twist .308 cast @ 2605fps at 500 yards sub 2 MOA five shot group.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    1:10 twist .308 cast @ 2605fps at 500 yards sub 2 MOA five shot group.

    So my brother and I went out shooting this morning testing more high velocity cast .308 bullets.
    I had some mixed results. Some of the 30 XCB bullets @ 2530 did okay until the barrel got hot then the shots started to wander.
    These were 166gr bullets sized to .311" and lubed with 2500+ and a coat of BLL. These were loaded with 46.5gr H414 @ 2530fps

    The second attempt was 47.5gr at 2605fps and I was able to get a sub 2 MOA five shot group.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9VDouNYi7A
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
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  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy Tom_in_AZ's Avatar
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    Wow!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Boolit Buddy Time Killer's Avatar
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    Nice Shooting

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    Boolit Buddy Hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Great shooting,, KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK ; )

    H/D

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    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    Inspirational!
    Nice shooting!

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    Boolit Master s mac's Avatar
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    Enjoy your videos and your efforts. Good job Waco.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Thanks guys!
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
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    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    You ever get to try the alloy & boolits I sent?
    Whatever!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master



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    Out-Flamin'-Standing!!!
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    You ever get to try the alloy & boolits I sent?
    I did. I was only running it around 2260fps with RL15
    They shot pretty good.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Inspiring to say the least .

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    Boolit Grand Master
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    I cannot shoot like that with jacketed. At 500 yards, the wind will get to me, even if the gun and load are capable. A 10 MPH wind will give over 2 ft of windage. Great shooting waco.
    Don Verna


  13. #13
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Thank you for the kind words Don.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    Hey Waco, what mold did you use?

  15. #15
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44blam View Post
    hey waco, what mold did you use?
    noe 30xcb
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by waco View Post
    noe 30xcb
    I assume you have tried a number of different kinds of bullets. Why do you like the tapered nose style so much? I can understand the shortcomings of a bore rider for high velocity, but how about a full body bullet like the Loverin design?

  17. #17
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I assume you have tried a number of different kinds of bullets. Why do you like the tapered nose style so much? I can understand the shortcomings of a bore rider for high velocity, but how about a full body bullet like the Loverin design?
    I might try something similar with the NOE copy of the Saeco 315
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
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  18. #18
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    It's all theory, but if the limiting factor with the velocity of cast bullets is the alloys ability to hold rifling, I would think a bullet that is all bearing surface would hold the best. Maybe not. I now want to try some higher velocity bullets in my 308 Winchester 1:10" twist. I'll see how far the Lee 309-170-F will hold up. I was thinking a 200 grain bullet with just enough lube, all bearing surface, and a very short nose should be the best you will get. I've got one drawn up. I don't understand why the Loverin designs have the tiny drive bands, especially since so many recommend only filling half with lube. I would think 3 small lube grooves, with hefty driving bands would be a better way.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    I’m not sure. This is what has brought me success. The mold and alloy used was suggested by a few other people. 30 XCB cast from a 90/6/4 alloy. Pb, Sb, Sn and water dropped for a bhn of approximately 18.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I sized these to .311" and the are lubed with Lar's 2500+ and have two thin coats of Ben's liquid lube over them.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  20. #20
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    megasupermagnum

    "It's all theory, but if the limiting factor with the velocity of cast bullets is the alloys ability to hold rifling"

    That is not the primary limiting factor, but it is one of the very important factors.

    "I would think a bullet that is all bearing surface would hold the best."

    It's not that the most bearing surface holds the rifling better but one of the longer the bearing surface vs OAL of the bullet the more concentric the bullet stays. Understand the bullet rides a layer of lube down the bore. Thus the bullet is swaged down to less than groove/bore diameters....by as much as .003 - .005".

    "Maybe not. I now want to try some higher velocity bullets in my 308 Winchester 1:10" twist. I'll see how far the Lee 309-170-F will hold up."

    You will find that bullet, with it's long unsupported nose, will have a much lower RPM Threshold than does the 30 XCB bullet.

    " I was thinking a 200 grain bullet with just enough lube, all bearing surface, and a very short nose should be the best you will get."

    That would be good but it still needs multiple narrow and shallow grooves that are all lubed (similar to the grooves on the 30 XCB). The drive bands should be at least as wide as the XCBs also. Additionally the GC should not extend below the neck into the case (at least the top of the GC should remain in the neck). Thus such a bullet loaded as such in a 308W case would require a long throat in the chamber. The throat diameter should not be larger than .3105 with a .308 grove diameter barrel. The bullets should be sized to not smaller than .310 for a snug fit in the throat. That would give the bullet almost full support its entire bearing length.

    "I don't understand why the Loverin designs have the tiny drive bands, especially since so many recommend only filling half with lube. I would think 3 small lube grooves, with hefty driving bands would be a better way."

    The Loverin designs were done back in the day before we had the modern efficient lubes we have today. The concept with the lubes they used was a lot of lube was needed and the Loverins were never intended for true HV. However. I have pushed the 311466 Loverin cast of #2 alloy upwards of 2400 fps with 2 moa or less accuracy in a 10" twist .308W. In a 12" twist 2500 - 2600 fps with sub 2 moa accuracy was done and in a 14" twist .308W 2700 - 2800 fps with sub 2 moa accuracy was also accomplished. I'm talking 10 shot groups BTW.

    I was instrumental in the design of the NOE 30 XCB cast bullet. The concept was to design a cast bullet to just fit the neck length of the 30-06 neck from the base of the case neck to the chamber leade, to have 65 - 68% bearing surface (same as the 311466) and to have minimal non bore rider nose length and to have narrow shallow lube grooves. The resulting NOE 30 XCB bullet has proven excellent at velocities as high as 3100+ fps and as low as "normal" cast bullet velocities. It is especially great when used in the cartridges it was originally designed for; the 30 XCB (30x57) and the 30x60 XCB. Fortunately, it also shoots extremely well in most .308Ws, especially if they have a bit of throat length allowing proper seating of the bullet.

    Waco is demonstrating how with a properly designed cast bullet in a good rifle, using proper loading techniques and a slow burning powder that the RPM Threshold can be pushed up.

    Here's an 11 shot sub moa group (5.9") I shot with the 30 XCB out of the 30x60 XCB cartridge at 600 yards. The velocity was 2900 fps.

    Attachment 230362
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check