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Thread: New M&P40c is ammo sensitive.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master



    Idaho45guy's Avatar
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    New M&P40c is ammo sensitive.

    This is my second M&P40c. Bought the first one back in 2007 and I loved it; accurate with everything, decent trigger, easy to carry.

    Sold it and regretted it so bought this one last month.

    They don't make them like they used to, as the saying goes...

    Initial range trip couple weeks ago was disappointing at 25yds. Best it could do was 4" using handloads and a rest. Since I was using 165gr Speer Gold Dots and some 165gr FMJs, I decided to work up a couple of loads using 180gr Hornady XTPs. Plus, I ordered a new replacement barrel from Midway for $70 to see if it was a barrel issue.

    Two new loads were with the 180gr XTPs but one used Ramshot Silhouette powder and the other WSF. The WSF load was 5.7gr and has proven very, very accurate in my Glock.

    So, I put in the new barrel and shot the old 165gr load. Worse than before.


    Then tried the new 180gr loads and not much better.


    Swapped in the old barrel and tried the 180gr loads and it ended up giving me a decent 2" group with the Ramshot recipe. Plus the Ramshot load was considerably less snappy than the WSF load, and both were at the mid-level range.


    The more I shoot the M&P40c, the less I like it. The trigger is much heavier and grittier than my old one and the lackluster accuracy does not inspire confidence. Now, 2" at 25yds is indeed very acceptable, and I will continue to up the power levels until I get an acceptable trade-off between accuracy and power.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  2. #2
    Boolit Master



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    Best group of the day with the 180gr XTP and 6.1gr of Ramshot Silhouette.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You can tell the difference between the original barrel and the new replacement barrel, which arrived rusty.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master
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    2” at 25 yards is actually better the vast majority of plastikpistoles shoot at 25 yards. That being said, I shoot a whole lot of groups before I declare anything an average.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Its a compact, my S&W shield is even worse when it comes to accuracy.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Shooting 2” at 25 is still excellent for plastic no matter what size it is.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    Shooting 2” at 25 is still excellent for plastic no matter what size it is.
    Yessir.

    I have never been attracted to the S&W plasticpistols. I have gone the Glock route in this venue, owing to the large number of factory-cert armorers at large in both citizen and LE shooting circles. My usual carry critter (Glock 23) will place its WWB JHP 180 grainers into 2.75" to 3.00" at 25 yards pretty reliably. 1.5" radial dispersion from aim point at 25 yards is just fine for felon repellent, God forbid its necessity.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleberry41 View Post
    Its a compact, my S&W shield is even worse when it comes to accuracy.
    My XDS 40 is even smaller and will do under 2" at 25yds using cheap plinking ammo...

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    My Glock 29 is classified as a compact and it will do an inch at 25yds, when I do my part...

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    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
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    With all due respect to any claims made, the ones I have handled and shot and reliable reports of their accuracy still make a 2 inch at 25 yard plasrikpistol that truly averages that figure the rare exception.

    It is worthwhile to know when good enough is just that, and understand when average accuracy and expectations of considerably above average accuracy differ.

    It helps to see multiple groups shot on the same piece of paper to help the viewer resolve what is typical and what is not. I know most of us do not do that, but it sure helps to substantiate any claims and slam the door on any doubt or skepticism. The one paper, multiple group standard shows clear accuracy trends.

    Considerable customization is required for really small groups at 25 yards and does not come from the factory. We hafta pay extra for that.

    In that regard it is certainly a personal decision as to the value of any particular accuracy level.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master
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    A number of my plastiks have rails and it is no big deal to mount a laser and do 25 yard group shooting off bags looking at the projected dot through a spottting scope while I carefully squeeze the trigger. This is pretty much like scoping the pistol, in effect. I have yet to see any factory plastikpistol shoot anything approaching bugholes, and my run of the mill Ruger 22 autoloaders will shoot rings around any of them.

    Which just doesn’t matter given the plastik’s intended use. I am not about to return a subcompact that does around 3 inches as I would be returning the majority of the ones I have shot. Some of those do not have rails and the human factor comes into play then. As does the factory spongy creepy heavy triggers.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    It helps to see multiple groups shot on the same piece of paper to help the viewer resolve what is typical and what is not. I know most of us do not do that, but it sure helps to substantiate any claims and slam the door on any doubt or skepticism.
    Are you saying that you're skeptical of my claims of accuracy?
    Last edited by Idaho45guy; 11-08-2018 at 04:37 AM.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I said what I said. You do what you do.

    No one has to suit anyone but themselves. We’re just recounting our experiences here.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master
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    When I figure out how to post images again I will show my “average accuracy” targets I put in my files. These have lots of groups shot one after another on the same piece of paper.

    An example of a post where I show lotsa groups.......

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...utter-in-a-308

    See post 45 on this page in the following thread:
    https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/r...loaders-5.html

    Kinda makes my point about showing intent to represent average accuracy by putting multiple groups on the same target. Just walking the walk here.
    My claimed average accuracy looks repeatable, over and over again in succession, which does make it average.
    Last edited by 35remington; 11-08-2018 at 08:02 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    When I figure out how to post images again I will show my “average accuracy” targets I put in my files. These have lots of groups shot one after another on the same piece of paper.

    An example of a post where I show lotsa groups.......

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...utter-in-a-308

    See post 45 on this page in the following thread:
    https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/r...loaders-5.html

    Kinda makes my point about showing intent to represent average accuracy by putting multiple groups on the same target. Just walking the walk here.
    My claimed average accuracy looks repeatable, over and over again in succession, which does make it average.
    I see.

    When I try new loads, I don't make 50 or 100, or even 25 rounds of the same combo. I do 10 or 15. Then I shoot a couple of groups to see if the gun likes it. I don't need to shoot ten groups to determine if my pistol likes it.

    Now, once I find a load that a pistol likes, then I'll crank out 50 rounds or so for later. I use mostly Hornady XTPs for self-defense. Those cost me around $20 for 100.
    I don't have a ton of disposable income, so I don't go shooting up all my supply for no reason. For GSSF matches, I've found RMR 165gr bullets to be pretty good, so I will crank out 100 of those for a match. I know they work in my G35, so I don't feel the need to shoot group after group on one target just so some anonymous internet guy won't call me a liar.

    You can continue in your belief that anyone who doesn't do it the way you do is dishonest and I'll continue in the knowledge that my pistols perform very well in my hands.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  14. #14
    Boolit Master 1bluehorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    You can continue in your belief that anyone who doesn't do it the way you do is dishonest and I'll continue in the knowledge that my pistols perform very well in my hands.


    Well, with the exception of that S&W M&P40c.......................

  15. #15
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bluehorse View Post
    Well, with the exception of that S&W M&P40c.......................
    LOL! It's getting there my friend! Ordered an Apex trigger for it and another box of 180gr XTPs to try some new recipes.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I just suggested a way to reconcile opposing viewpoints definitively. I do so because MY claims can be questioned (I moderate a reloading forum in my other life), and because I am a skeptic of observed results on my part until statistical confidence is obtained. Confidence in results is a statistical measure shown by shooting lots of groups. If I shoot one decent group with a total of one group shot that is not enough to convince me what I am seeing is actually what is occurring.

    Two good groups out of two shot on the same piece of paper do start to be food for thought, though. One good group and two average ones out of three groups shot leaves me with doubt.

    Consider it my own way of valuing certainty. Instilled at the insistence of my mentors in my paper writing days.

    If you are happy that is all that matters.

    Having shot a lot of Glocks, Smith’s, and others in factory plastic persuasions, I find that accuracy a well maintained K frame 38 Smith obtains as a matter of course cannot be equaled or approached. Here I will suggest that three inches or a little more, or thereabouts, is standard. Factory stock 1911s don’t beat that by much either.

    If you get a gunsmith to throw some money at them that all changes.
    Last edited by 35remington; 11-08-2018 at 09:45 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master






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    I agree too. A black gun that shoots 2 inch groups is about the holy grail of black guns in my opinion. I have quite a few glocks and m&ps and accuracy isn't my main concern with them. Its that they go bang every time I pull the trigger. Ive had just as good of luck with M&Ps for reliability then I have glocks. Im not much of a springfield fan. there probably good guns but I owned two early ones and both of them had feeding problems especially with cast bullets. For the most part I stick to sigs, glocks and smiths. For what I use them for and for self defense a 4 inch 25 yard group is just fine. To be honest I don't even waste much time working up loads for them. Load a 1000 rounds and go blast them up on steel ect and have fun. that's what those guns do best. right now I have 6 glocks and 5 m&ps and I don't recall a single one of them shooting a 2 inch group unless it was a fluke lucky group. A CONSISTENT 3 inch group shooting black gun is something to brag about not the norm. Heck even if they were capable it takes one hell of a trigger man to overcome there long hard pulling gritty triggers out of the box. If your going to buy an m&P and put a 200 dollar apex trigger in it and a different barrel your probably better off just buying a sig. At least with a glock you can go from a horrendous trigger one that's almost shootable for 25 bucks in parts and 10 minutes of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    Shooting 2” at 25 is still excellent for plastic no matter what size it is.
    Last edited by Lloyd Smale; 11-09-2018 at 08:10 AM.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

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