.44 mag carbine

[Zander]

Ok, as an archery hunter I realize shot placement trumps all. With that said I have used jacketed bullets that even with good shot placement left much to be desired it terms of terminal performance.

I have read that a nonexpanding boolit with a big meplat is great at handgun velocities but you can drive them to a point of diminishing returns.

Now for the question: I have not seen a specific velocity at which the terminal performance begins to suffer. Would or have any of you used a non-expanding 265gr ranch dog boolit at a muzzle velocity of about 1500 fps for 150-200 lb whitetail? Would this velocity be to fast for close up shots, or am I still within that velocity range in which that boolit will generate a good wound cavity?

I ask because I have gotten acceptable accuracy out of 2 different alloys. One is a softer alloy (about 10-11 BHN) good expansion in water jugs but I found the boolit in the 3rd jug at 50 yards. The other alloy is heat treated COWW+ 2% tin (around 24 BHN?) Neither of these are PCed and have been pan lubed with commercial lube that I mixed with beeswax.

[Larry Gibson]

"Would or have any of you used a non-expanding 265gr ranch dog boolit at a muzzle velocity of about 1500 fps for 150-200 lb whitetail?..........."

I haven't used the RD bullet but I have use the 429421 and the 429244 cast of 16-1 alloy and COWW+2% tin (AC'd) at 1350 to 1650 fps out of 6 -10" revolvers, Contenders and out of a M94 carbine on black tail and mule deer in that weight range with expected excellent results. The 429244 cast of 16-1 alloy and HPed appropriately did exceptionally well. Penetration through the heart/lung and usually at least one leg was through and through with an excellent exit wound showing positive expansion. The deer were basically DRT and few travel far....mostly in just a stagger before going down.

I have progressed from those two bullets to the 429640HP "Devastator" also cast of 16-1 alloy. The RD 265 gr bullet you have should do quite well for you.

[Thumbcocker]

I have used that boolit over 22.0 of H110/296 for the past few seasons out of 5.5 and 7.5 inch Rugers. Never chronographed it. It works fine.

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[Silvercreek Farmer]

I put that bullet (ACCOWW) through a deer at about 1700 fps on Sat. There was no "point of deminishing return", it's heart was blown in half.

Just curious, can you share the details of the jacketed performance or lack there of?

[Rick R]

The 265gr RD out of 1/2 COWW and 1/2 soft lead, water quenched sized .431” and lubed with BAC is what I use in most of my .44 loads. I took a whitetail doe last month using this boolit at @1,650fps out of my 1894 Marlin. She turned toward me at fifty yards and it hit just in front of her right shoulder, went thru her chest and exited thru the center of her left shoulder. Copious blood trail about 75 yards and I found a dead deer. The wound channel was about what I’d expect given the WFN style boolit.
FWIW I also also use the 360gr Ranch Dog boolit in my .45/70 rifles as do a couple friends. My favorite load is @1,850fps and the deer just walk/trot a few yards and topple over.

[Zander]

Sweet! So it sounds like most would be using my softer alloy. I was worried about the super hard boolits not preforming well but I had a bunch of them left over from when I was getting the feel for everything so I thought I'd try 'em. I'll use my softer "hunting alloy" in the upcoming weeks and I'll be sure to share my hopeful success here with y'all.

[Zander]

Just curious, can you share the details of the jacketed performance or lack there of?

I absolutely will. For years I've used a 180gr rn bullet in my 30/06. Most of my shots are well within the 100 yard mark and this bullet worked wonders at that range. However during the component shortage I couldn't find any so I called the manufacturer (Sierra) and they suggested using a 165gr HPBT Gameking (note this is not the 168gr matchmaking) well I worked up a good load and this thing will shoot 1/2 MOA all day at 200 yards if I do my part. I felt confident so I took it to the field. The first 2 deer I killed were DRT at around 75 yards. They were sizable deer, lots of bloodshot meat and impressive wound channels. The next deer was killed by my boy, it was a yearling doe at about 125 yards. This time the bullet went between ribs on the entry and never expanded, it honestly looked like the deer was shot with a field point, just a tiny hole through and through. Little to no blood and a very tedious tracking job. It had bedded down about 50 yards and was still clinging to life when we found it 1 1/2 hours later. Granted not a perfect shot but was close as it passed through one lung and grazed across the heart. The final deer we shot with that bullet was at about 20 yards, complete fragmentation of the bullet not even passing through the opposite ribs.

Another jacketed bullet I've had problems with is any of the shockwave or knockoff there of. Yes they are extremely accurate but in my personal experience if you don't hit heavy bone or push them hard enough they don't expand reliably. I killed many deer with these some were DRT others required a long tracking job. I never understood why until I shot a doe head on and finally recovered a bullet from her hip. The recovered bullet had only shed its polymer tip, zero expansion.

When I was a kid we always used lead bullets in our muzzleloaders. Now just simple cheap lead alloy bullets with sabots are nearly impossible to find so I decided to take up casting and make my own. Having cheap boolits for my .44s sweetened the pot as well LOL

[megasupermagnum]

Just curious, can you share the details of the jacketed performance or lack there of?

I absolutely will. For years I've used a 180gr rn bullet in my 30/06. Most of my shots are well within the 100 yard mark and this bullet worked wonders at that range. However during the component shortage I couldn't find any so I called the manufacturer (Sierra) and they suggested using a 165gr HPBT Gameking (note this is not the 168gr matchmaking) well I worked up a good load and this thing will shoot 1/2 MOA all day at 200 yards if I do my part. I felt confident so I took it to the field. The first 2 deer I killed were DRT at around 75 yards. They were sizable deer, lots of bloodshot meat and impressive wound channels. The next deer was killed by my boy, it was a yearling doe at about 125 yards. This time the bullet went between ribs on the entry and never expanded, it honestly looked like the deer was shot with a field point, just a tiny hole through and through. Little to no blood and a very tedious tracking job. It had bedded down about 50 yards and was still clinging to life when we found it 1 1/2 hours later. Granted not a perfect shot but was close as it passed through one lung and grazed across the heart. The final deer we shot with that bullet was at about 20 yards, complete fragmentation of the bullet not even passing through the opposite ribs.

Another jacketed bullet I've had problems with is any of the shockwave or knockoff there of. Yes they are extremely accurate but in my personal experience if you don't hit heavy bone or push them hard enough they don't expand reliably. I killed many deer with these some were DRT others required a long tracking job. I never understood why until I shot a doe head on and finally recovered a bullet from her hip. The recovered bullet had only shed its polymer tip, zero expansion.

When I was a kid we always used lead bullets in our muzzleloaders. Now just simple cheap lead alloy bullets with sabots are nearly impossible to find so I decided to take up casting and make my own. Having cheap boolits for my .44s sweetened the pot as well LOL

Exactly, and it's the worst with shotgun slugs and muzzleloader bullets. Guys like to say a 44/45 caliber bullet doesn't shrink. With my own eyes, I saw a deer shot with a 50 caliber muzzleloader with a fancy pointed bullet that didn't expand. It didn't leave a 50 caliber hole, it might have been a 1/4" hole at best. We tracked that deer for hundreds of yards, and found it by luck. We wounded a few others before we realized what was happening. I will use nothing but cast from a muzzleloader ever again. The best part is my heavy flat point cast bullets shoot flatter than the lighter pointed bullets. I gave up the fancy shotgun slugs for a number of reasons. Funny thing is the most accurate sabot slug currently made in my opinion is the cheap Federal sabot slug, a swaged lead hollow point.

Reading 44man, and what he was saying about flat points shot to fast, he was talking 1700 fps+. Even at that, he says cast a little softer, and they work great again. Use your softer alloy if it shoots good, use the harder alloy if you have to.

[Markopolo]

+1 on what mega said. I only used hardcast on hard targets, moose, bear loads and so on where there is a ton of big bone and muscle. There is a ton to be said for softer lead expansion on thin skinned stuff like deer. Hard is for hard thick targets. Soft is for soft skinned.

[Zander]

I have tried the powerbelt bullets, all of them to my knowledge, with various powders and charges in 3 different front stuffers that I own. I was never able to get better then 5" groups at 100 yards. Like most things in the gun world your equipment likes what it likes and there's no way around that. I do have a couple friends that love them things and can shoot 1.5" groups.

I have used the XTP bullets in sabots and they do work well but if I can make my own boolit that rivals the accuracy and gives better terminal performance at a fraction of the cost and essentially unlimited availability why buy 'em. LOL

[Piedmont]

The arguments of a velocity threshold above which a flatnose becomes ineffective are hot air. The couple of proponents of this line of thought base it on a very limited sample size and limited gray matter. Think it through. It makes no sense.

The basic argument is too large a hole through the vitals won't kill them. Sort of like if too big a boulder falls on you, you won't die.

[Thumbcocker]

I use acww and wdww. Didn't notice any difference on critters


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[megasupermagnum]

if your using a muzzleloader, get the xtp in a sabot, those things are nice. Or get the powerbelt. used a powerbelt once at 30 yards, I was able to find pieces of postage stamp size rib bone 10 yards behind the deer.

Bullet performance is going to be determined by the bullet used in the jacketed load as well as the cast

Power belts were great back when 777 pellets were all the rage, and sabot's were limited. Now, I don't see the reason to use either. The crud 777 pellets leave is the only reason power belts exist if you ask me. The bullets we had problems with were Hornady FPB. Even power belt's offer all kinds of boutique plated bullets now. That tail just ruins the BC, no point in using any power belt put the original lead ones. The XTP is a good bullet, but you have to know which one to get. I avoid all that mess, cast stick on wheel weights, either a bullet for a sabot, a conical, or a ball. Soft lead will not fail.