Just how touchy is BP?

[Don McDowell]

Probably, you'll just have to search around used book stores garage sales and the like. Cornell Publishing makes reprints of a lot of old catalogs etc, that you can purchase.

[Lead pot]

I have a old Lyman 55 with a red plastic hopper and along side of it there is a Lyman 55 with a aluminum hopper and both are filled with black powder. Also I have a Redding, my first powder drop that also has a plastic hopper that has dropped black powder since the 50's for me and still dropping it.

[rfd]

i dunno where in the world this nonsense about black powder and static electricity started, but i'd bet there's either litigators or politicians or both behind it somewhere. lawyers and politicians. yep.

[Dieselhorses]

Do a search for

A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF BLACK POWDER
Ronald A. Sasse'
January 1985

I have the document but can't post it here. After you read it you'll never have another question about BP.

[rfd]

A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF BLACK POWDER

[Dieselhorses]

A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF BLACK POWDER

Thanks rfd

[GregLaROCHE]

A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF BLACK POWDER

This sounds like some very interesting stuff. I’ve got to start reading it tomorrow.
Thanks.

[indian joe]

Keep it away from fire and sparks and it's no problem. It won't go off if you hit it with a hammer. It's not a primary explosive. It will, however, burn extremely fast if ignited when unconfined.

Agree !!
A small quantity spilt over a large area will/can flash ignite and scare the pants off you
Temerature makes a huge difference to how easy it sets off.
I believe the hammer theory and the static spark ignition is largely a fallacy
However if your hammer strike or your static spark generates enough temperature (360some plus degrees F) then you have ignition - and both of these generate heat so if you hold that hammer tight and swing it hard ? maybe could come back and penetrate your forehead ?

[indian joe]

No more dangerous than gasoline.
It needs a decent spark to ignite , static electricity would be iffy but not impossible .
When ignited , even just lying in a dish, it all goes up at once like flash powder. Very exciting but Watch your eyebrows.
Smokeless powder in a dish just lays there and burns slowly at a controlled rate.... Boring
When younger we tried lighting both .... as an experiment you understand ...
Gary

Differently dangerous than gasoline! you can set light to a 50 gal drum of gas and put it out so long as its mostly full - empty that same container all but a teaspoon full - drop a match in and you just made a house payment for the undertaker!
Set light to a big heap of blackpowder - you and the town firebrigade not gonna extinguish that lot! but a couple teaspoons? might lose an eybrow is all .

[indian joe]

i dunno where in the world this nonsense about black powder and static electricity started, but i'd bet there's either litigators or politicians or both behind it somewhere. lawyers and politicians. yep.

dont forget that chemical companies (powder manufacturers) and ammunition makers have a vested interest in keeping blackpowder listed as a class one explosive

[Deadeye Bly]

I've been using black powder for over 50 years and there is a lot of questionable information in this thread. It is as safe as any gunpowder when stored and used properly. It will not go off if dropped, hit with a hammer or left in the sunlight. The static thing is questionable but it seems to not be ignited with static in experiments. It is now shipped in plastic containers so the static thing with plastic seem to be a non issue. It is stable in loaded rounds either compressed or uncompressed for many years. It does not deteriorate with age. Extreme spreads in velocity in properly loaded ammo can be in the single digits. Clean up is not a nightmare. Water is the best solvent ever invented for black powder. I use a water and soluble oil mixture to clean mine because the oil provides protection form rust after cleaning. You do not need to completely disassemble your firearm to clean it unless you are shooting a Colt type percussion revolver. My Sharps cleans up with 2 wet patches and a dry one and then one with LPS. I drop the breech block once or twice a year but have never found a problem with rust. Marlin lever actions are the easiest to clean. Take out the lever screw and lever and the breech block comes out for cleaning from the breech end. It will always be a class 1 explosive. Treat it with respect and care and you will have a lifetime if fun with it as I have.

[Don McDowell]

A bit of historical information. This thing about putting powder on an anvil and hitting it with a hammer was how Ned Roberts described the way of determining if you had a batch of powder that was unmarked whether it was black or one of the lessmoke, semi smokeless. You simply put a few grains on top of an anvil and hit it with a hammer , if it went off chances were pretty good it was King's semismokless or similar, if it didn't then it was black.

[indian joe]

I've been using black powder for over 50 years and there is a lot of questionable information in this thread. It is as safe as any gunpowder when stored and used properly. It will not go off if dropped, hit with a hammer or left in the sunlight. The static thing is questionable but it seems to not be ignited with static in experiments. It is now shipped in plastic containers so the static thing with plastic seem to be a non issue. It is stable in loaded rounds either compressed or uncompressed for many years. It does not deteriorate with age. Extreme spreads in velocity in properly loaded ammo can be in the single digits. Clean up is not a nightmare. Water is the best solvent ever invented for black powder. I use a water and soluble oil mixture to clean mine because the oil provides protection form rust after cleaning. You do not need to completely disassemble your firearm to clean it unless you are shooting a Colt type percussion revolver. My Sharps cleans up with 2 wet patches and a dry one and then one with LPS. I drop the breech block once or twice a year but have never found a problem with rust. Marlin lever actions are the easiest to clean. Take out the lever screw and lever and the breech block comes out for cleaning from the breech end. It will always be a class 1 explosive. Treat it with respect and care and you will have a lifetime if fun with it as I have.

Good post !!!!!!

[KCSO]

Dust is explosive if fine enough and mixed with air. Bp Is about the same BP dust mixed with air will ignite with static a PILE of FFFg won't. A spark from a flinter is red hot steel say 900 degrees or more. Paper burns at a little less than 500 degrees and ill ignite BP. You can hammer BP and it won't go off IF you don't make a spark. You just need to use reasonable care in use and storage.

[GregLaROCHE]

Differently dangerous than gasoline! you can set light to a 50 gal drum of gas and put it out so long as its mostly full - empty that same container all but a teaspoon full - drop a match in and you just made a house payment for the undertaker!
Set light to a big heap of blackpowder - you and the town firebrigade not gonna extinguish that lot! but a couple teaspoons? might lose an eybrow is all .

I learned about gasoline vapors when I was less than ten years old. I threw an empty metal five gallon gas can on a fire. Lost all my eyebrows and eyelashes.

[Dieselhorses]

Ok so I have to tell on myself. I was in my shop one fine day and I was working on a project that required the brief use of a grinder. I commenced to grinding and forgot about the mesh strainer and bucket I'd used the day before to grain some BP-big mistake! Sparks flew then strainer and bucket flamed up- good thing I had a fire extinguisher handy. Nothing else was damaged fortunately and although this proved I had a good batch of BP, I will NEVER store anything with residue in shop! At any rate I had to go buy another strainer.

[flint45]

I've been using black powder for over 50 years and there is a lot of questionable information in this thread. It is as safe as any gunpowder when stored and used properly. It will not go off if dropped, hit with a hammer or left in the sunlight. The static thing is questionable but it seems to not be ignited with static in experiments. It is now shipped in plastic containers so the static thing with plastic seem to be a non issue. It is stable in loaded rounds either compressed or uncompressed for many years. It does not deteriorate with age. Extreme spreads in velocity in properly loaded ammo can be in the single digits. Clean up is not a nightmare. Water is the best solvent ever invented for black powder. I use a water and soluble oil mixture to clean mine because the oil provides protection form rust after cleaning. You do not need to completely disassemble your firearm to clean it unless you are shooting a Colt type percussion revolver. My Sharps cleans up with 2 wet patches and a dry one and then one with LPS. I drop the breech block once or twice a year but have never found a problem with rust. Marlin lever actions are the easiest to clean. Take out the lever screw and lever and the breech block comes out for cleaning from the breech end. It will always be a class 1 explosive. Treat it with respect and care and you will have a lifetime if fun with it as I have.

What he said. I agree completely. The static thing is nonsense I have never seen it proven.

[Alferd Packer]

A bit of historical information. This thing about putting powder on an anvil and hitting it with a hammer was how Ned Roberts described the way of determining if you had a batch of powder that was unmarked whether it was black or one of the lessmoke, semi smokeless. You simply put a few grains on top of an anvil and hit it with a hammer , if it went off chances were pretty good it was King's semismokless or similar, if it didn't then it was black.

After WW2, the Japanese exported cheap tin cap guns to the U.S.
The caps included with them came on yellow colored paper rolls and were made of black powder. They had the distinctive sulphur smell and were louder than american Kilgore company caps.The rolls were skinnier and american roll caps were too wide to work in the guns.
Perhaps some of you can remember this.
The confectionery typically sold these along with firecrackers and bottle rockets all from Hong kong.
But the Jap cap pistols were ten cents complete with caps that we all knew were black powder.You were never allowed to shoot the Jap caps in the house. They were louder and they stunk of black powder smell.
Also, my younger brother emptied a black powder shotshell on the sidewalk and pounded on it with Dad's good claw nail hammer and set off the pile and blew a chunk out of the hammer head that struck Dad's car next to him and put a deep dent in the door.zThose old cars had thick metal skins on the doors .
I am reminded of that old adage that no matter how many times you do a thing and nothing happens, it only takes one time for something to go wrong to kill you.
People in St Louis constantly run red lights at all times of the day and night. Occasionally there are horrific crashes with the cars flying apart as if a bomb blew them up. The people are in pieces as well.
But most traffic approaches a green light and has to pause and peek both ways cause the buildings are built right up to the corners and the streets are mostly at acute angles at the intersections.
Black powder is classified as an explosive, not a propellant the last time I looked.
I believe the story about the fellow who beat on the powder with a hammer to identify the powder as being black, but i also know that my younger brother could have killed himself or me if that chunk of hammer head would have struck either one of us in the right place.
There are CAS shooters who persist in loading semipointed lead bullets in tube fed lever action rifles claiming they have never had an accident with a lead bullet setting off a primer in the magazine.
Again, no matter how many times...the old adage.
Right now it is sleeting and icy outside as I write this. Traffic on the icy highways is mostly driving too fast for conditions and texting and talking on cell phones to boot.
Human beings are not to be denied their freedom.
Be safe.
God Bless all here.

[1hole]

If open B.P. were as dangerous as some folk fear we'd be constantly hearing of injuries or deaths and walking around smoking holes. I've been into shooting stuff for some 65 years and have NEVER heard of a single such incident. But, no one should be a careless fool because nothing is truly fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool.

[M-Tecs]

After WW2, the Japanese exported cheap tin cap guns to the U.S.
The caps included with them came on yellow colored paper rolls and were made of black powder. They had the distinctive sulphur smell and were louder than american Kilgore company caps.The rolls were skinnier and american roll caps were too wide to work in the guns.
Perhaps some of you can remember this.
The confectionery typically sold these along with firecrackers and bottle rockets all from Hong kong.
But the Jap cap pistols were ten cents complete with caps that we all knew were black powder.You were never allowed to shoot the Jap caps in the house. They were louder and they stunk of black powder smell.
Also, my younger brother emptied a black powder shotshell on the sidewalk and pounded on it with Dad's good claw nail hammer and set off the pile and blew a chunk out of the hammer head that struck Dad's car next to him and put a deep dent in the door.zThose old cars had thick metal skins on the doors .
I am reminded of that old adage that no matter how many times you do a thing and nothing happens, it only takes one time for something to go wrong to kill you.
People in St Louis constantly run red lights at all times of the day and night. Occasionally there are horrific crashes with the cars flying apart as if a bomb blew them up. The people are in pieces as well.
But most traffic approaches a green light and has to pause and peek both ways cause the buildings are built right up to the corners and the streets are mostly at acute angles at the intersections.
Black powder is classified as an explosive, not a propellant the last time I looked.
I believe the story about the fellow who beat on the powder with a hammer to identify the powder as being black, but i also know that my younger brother could have killed himself or me if that chunk of hammer head would have struck either one of us in the right place.
There are CAS shooters who persist in loading semipointed lead bullets in tube fed lever action rifles claiming they have never had an accident with a lead bullet setting off a primer in the magazine.
Again, no matter how many times...the old adage.
Right now it is sleeting and icy outside as I write this. Traffic on the icy highways is mostly driving too fast for conditions and texting and talking on cell phones to boot.
Human beings are not to be denied their freedom.
Be safe.
God Bless all here.

While those caps may have contained BP they would have required addition additives to make them workable. I have shot tightly rapped carboard tubes of BP with a 220 at over 4,000 FPS and none ignited.

Uncontained BP has very little explosive energy. Think what happens to the FFFG powder in the flash pan of a flintlock.

actual BP burning