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Thread: Soot on the neck

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Soot on the neck

    I've been testing on my T38 Arisaka. 6.5x50.
    Lyman 140ge. I4198, 2400, I4227.
    I reloaded the brass five times, and figured it was time to anneal the necks, before they split.
    After I annealed them, I starting getting lots of black soot on the necks.
    I thought annealing is suppose to make the brass softer.
    I thought softer neck would seal better.
    I wasn't getting the soot before annealing.
    Didn't seem to affect the accuracy any.
    Why am I getting the soot now?????

  2. #2
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    MUSTANG's Avatar
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    Possible that before you annealed the necks the tension was such that pressure was building up more rapidly before the boolit was released; resulting in a more rapid neck expansion and less gas blow by on the neck before it sealed. After annealing, the pressure before boolit neck release was less and you got more gas blow by before the neck sealed.
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 11-04-2018 at 01:49 PM.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  3. #3
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    Try increasing powder charge a bit.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I tried a cheap neck size. Put a washer over the shell holder before sizing.
    Soot was much less. Some cases had none at all.
    I did notice a few cases had blow by at the primer.
    When I seated them, they all felt tight going in.
    Cases have been reloaded many times.
    Maybe their just worn out.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    Please share your loads. Mild loads can have primer blowby, because pressure is not sufficient to expand and seal the primer cup in the pocket.

    Also, were these cases reformed, or original?
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Low Pressure problem

    Soft necks let the bullet move sooner at lower pressure. Takes about 15,000 + psi to expand necks.

    Light loads expand the case body outward. This pulls the shoulder back, away from the chamber. The head to datum measurement becomes shorter , as does trim length on fired brass.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    6.5 Arisaka, 266di 140gr GC, I4227, 2400, I4198.
    All around 13.0 to 15.0.
    No soot before annealing.
    Did the annealing because I didn't want the necks to split.
    At a higher change, accuracy starting to go.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Are you crimping the cases? If not try it. Might make a difference.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    heavy crimp should up the pressure might solve the problem

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    They are crimped, but I'm using the crimp on the seating die.
    Haven't gotten around to making a Lee FC die yet.
    I guess, maybe, I made the neck to soft.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    The crimp from the seater die should be enough, if it’s adjusted to give the max possible. That’s all most people used to use a while back. You may have to look elsewhere to find the problem. Do you have other cases that you haven’t annealed to try. Maybe they’re hard to come by. I have a 7.7 jap that I haven’t shot for over thirty years. I remember back then it wasn’t easy to find bullets or brass for it. Good luck. Hope you get it figured out. Let us know what you come up with.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy Petander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTANG View Post
    Possible that before you annealed the necks the tension was such that pressure was building up more rapidly before the boolit was released; resulting in a more rapid neck expansion and less gas blow by on the neck before it sealed. After annealing, the pressure before boolit neck release was less and you got more gas blow by before the neck sealed.
    I'm quite sure this is what happened to me with 458 Socom.When the brass softened up after some reloads it started sooting. New brass with high neck tension was shooting clean.

    Faster powder solved the problem, now the pressure builds up fast enough to prevent leaks in the very beginning.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Today I was as working with a friend to lower the charge in a 308 with a silencer. We were trying to get it to shoot sub sonic and still recycle the next round. We were reducing the amount of powder in an uncrimped case and then we started to get carbon on the case necks. I crimped the cases and the carbon fouling stopped.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Could be the shells are just worn out.
    I noticed on some of them, I had leakage at the primers.

  15. #15

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    Crimping assures that the powder starts to burn before the bullet moves. If the primer pushes the bullet before the powder builds pressure the bullet could be in the barrel before the powder starts burning. Blowback is inevitable. You’ll also be rewarded with bigger groups due to the inconsistent ignition.
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Accuracy is good.
    I have a tuff of dacron over the powder.
    But I did before I annealed.
    Only thing different is the necks were annealed.
    Maybe I shouldn't have done it, but I didn't want the necks to split.
    Reloaded over five times before annealing.
    It's funny, but when seating the primers, it's tight going in.
    I did change primers.
    Went from CCI to Remington.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check