starting to cast

[weeple2000]

I couldn't find exactly the right sub for this so I posted it here. Mods - if there was a better place let me know.

I bought the following items to start casting:

Lee HG 68 clone 45 acp mold (6 cavity) & handles
Lee C309-200-R mold
Lee 420 pot
Lee ladle

40 lbs linotype from eBay

used coleman camp stove
lodge cast iron pan
lodge cornbread pan (2 - the corn cob type)
Stainless ladle, spoon and spatula (set for cooking)

Face shield
Welding apron, gloves, and arm covers

I picked up range lead from my club on two occasions. I got 22.2 lbs the first trip, and 44.8 lbs the second trip.

Before I started the real activities tonight, I cleaned my molds. I used 70% alcohol in the cavities. I then lubed the molds with antiseize. I also smoked them with a bic lighter. I did not use them however. I intended to cast ingots with the range lead. I am thinking that I will add linotype to the range lead to increase the tin when I am casting the bullets. For the rifle, I am thinking that I will probably cast an alloy 50% range lead 50% linotype for hunting. I might do another alloy with a different load for plinking. For my 45 bullseye loads, I think it would be best to keep the bullets as soft as possible but have them still cast well. Should I use the linotype for this? Or should I pick up some pewter? I did buy some Alox for tumble lubing. I also have a convection oven specifically for casting. I am not sure if I will powder coat or tumble lube.

I have been avoiding doing this, probably fearing the unknown a bit. I wasn't sure how much time I needed to invest. Tonight I bit the bullet. I didn't want to bite off more than I could chew, so all I did was cast the ingots. It took me about an hour. I went through almost all of the 22.2 lbs from my first trip to the range. I wound up with 11.6 lbs of ingots. I didn't get all of the lead out of my pan. I figured it was OK to leave it in there, next time I thought it might cut down on my melting time. Am I right about that?

I did this in my garage, with the door open. A guy at my club told me I might be alright without a fan. I did not use a fan, but I think I will need one for next time. I am wondering if I have a headache from fumes. I wasn't sure when to flux. The bottom of my pan was liquid after everything melted. The top never melted. As I saw the pile of solids reduce, I was using my ladle to add more solids to the top of it. I wanted to have enough liquid when I was done that I would be able to fill both of my corn bread pans. I filled one entirely, and half of the second. I used my spatula to get the solids off of the top. I had seen FortuneCookie45LC do this in his video. When I got the solids out, I am wondering how much unmelted lead I took with it. I used an old candle for flux. I cut a bit off of it 3 separate times. The first 2 times I added it to the top of the solids. The last time the pan had mainly liquid in it. I did stir a bit when I fluxed, but it was difficult when the solids were in the pan. I wish I had taken some photos of what I was doing while I was doing it. But I was a little concerned about the safety at the time having not done this before.

I have a question for those of you that are concerned about lead exposure. There are a number of guys at my club that get their lead levels checked. A lot of them have been high. From what I understand, the risk is due to inhaling the lead while you are shooting. The primer contains lead, and it becomes a cloud of dust when you shoot. I have been showering after shooting. If I shoot indoors, I immediately take my clothes off when I come home, and shower. I have a one year old daughter. If I shoot outdoors, I am slightly less concerned about it. But either way, I will shower, and not wear the clothes again unless I am shooting. The lead contaminated clothes are washed separate from the rest of my laundry. If you are the type to check your lead levels - do you take any precautions when casting? If so, what are they?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so I'll include the ones I took. If anyone has any tips for me I'm all ears. I did read From Ingot to Target a while ago. I have also read a fair amount online and watched a number of videos on youtube, prior to their new TOS.

[Oily]

IMHO you are not getting a good flux with the candle wax. I use sawdust or pine shavings for pet bedding. I used to use chainsaw shavings from my native blackjack trees on my property but alas I can't run a chainsaw anymore. The carbon from the wood will get you a good flux and float the debris to the top as you stir it in. You don't need any lino for your 45 ACP range scrap is fine as long as you have the boolits sized 1 to 2 thousands over bore size. If they will fit that big in your chamber. Load up a dummy round and see if it will plunck into your barrel. You may have to taper crimp to get a good consistent round.

[GregLaROCHE]

First due you know how hot you are getting your lead. From the looks and and what you are saying, it may not be hot enough. You need to flux more. Sawdust works well, but a lot of other stuff too. Make certain whatever you use, it’s 100% dry. Stir in well to the bottom and all around. I flux range scrap twice with sawdust, when making ingots and once with sawdust and then once with wax for casting boolits. I prefer bee’s wax.

Are you melting your lead inside or outside? I would never melt inside, especially if I had a young child. I know some people do on their kitchen stove, if they have an exhaust fan. Outside is a lot safer. If there is a breeze, you won’t need a fan, as long as you stay up wind. If there isn’t breeze a fan is recommended. A lot of people use a respirator to be exta safe. I do because I have had problems with lead. Don’t eat, drink or smoke while working with melted lead or handling lead boolits.

The risk of lead poisoning from primers is usually associated with ranges where there is a high number of shots fired at the same time. This is much worse in indoor ranges where the ventilation is often not adequate. Get your lead levels checked regularly.

Good luck.

[GregLaROCHE]

I just reread your post. Pure lead is the best for hunting, because it mushrooms the best. Tin (what’s in pewter) helps the mold fill better and can increase hardness a little to a point. Antimony (found in linotype) is what makes the boolit hard. Water quenching will also harden boolits.

Hardness is needed when you want to make the boolit go faster. I suggest you start with your range scrap first, see how well your boolits turn out and start researching about hardness and boolit velocities.

You will need to know what the hardness of your range scrap is. Most is less than 12 BHN, but mine turned out being 16, because I Collected range scrap from a 25 yard range where most shot pistols with hard lead boolits. There are a lot of hardness testers for sale. To start out there is a simple test using different pencil lead hardness. Search for it in the search box on the homepage.

Using a skillet is not the easiest way to melt and pour lead. A Dutch oven with a bail, makes it a lot easier to pickup and pour the heavy lead. However, you can clip a pair of vise grips on the opposite side of the handle and it makes it a lot easier to handle.

[tazman]

For the 45acp, the range scrap by itself should be hard enough to shoot well. It is for me. If it doesn't work as well for you, you can "sweeten" it using a little of your linotype. Maybe 1-2 pounds in the 4-20 pot per each pot full of range scrap.
You could also drop the boolits directly from the mold into a container of water. This will harden the boolits and sometimes makes them work better in a particular gun. I do this with all the boolits I cast as a regular thing.
For the rifle, you need to red other posts. I have no experience casting for rifles at this point.
I try to always melt my range scrap down(smelting) into ingots outdoors because of the fumes. I do my casting indoors with a small fan blowing a very gentle breeze(just enough for some air movement, not a wind) across the top of my pot and work area to keep the fumes if any away from me. I do this in a location where any small children will not be playing or messing around.
As long as there is air movement across the top of the pot in a direction away from you you should have no problems.

[WHITETAIL]

Good going!
I have always smelted in the garage.
All I do is add a box fan at the other end of the
garage.
That is just enough to blow the smoke+ all else
out the door and away from me smelting.

[WHITETAIL]

Also welcome to the world of smelting.
And may all your boolets shoot in the same hole.

[farmbif]

welcome to the world of casting, a great rewarding hobby

here is some of the best info available

http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm

[RU shooter]

A candle will work fine for fluxing really all I ever used ,heck lots of stuff can and has been used can't say any one is better than the others . Next time you smelt skim off most of the floating crud with a big slotted spoon so the alloy can drain out of the crud your skimming off some . Throw in your flux of choice and use a paint stir stick and scrape the bottom and sides well and more crud will float , skim and repeat

[lightman]

Welcome to Cast Boolits and to casting!
It sounds like you are off to a good start. Your range scrap should work fine in a 45. If not, you could add a small amount of your linotype. I would stay with the pistol caliber until you get comfortable with the process before starting with the rifle.

I cast and smelt in my shop. When smelting I run the exhaust fan and work up wind of the smelting pot. I don't run the fan when casting but I do have both the overhead and walk in doors open. I'm careful not to rub my eyes, lips, and such after handling lead. I also don't smoke or eat while casting or smelting. I don't have small children anymore but I would keep them away from my casting and smelting area. You may be a little overkill with your clothing and such but caution is always good.

The easiest way to learn this hobby is to have a mentor. The next best way is like you are doing. Start by reading, like you have done. Then start small and see what works and what doesn't. Feel free to ask questions.

[reddog81]

I would smelt outside. I cast in my garage but smelting is too dirty to do in an enclosed space. Leaving 5 to the 10 pounds in your smelting pot is a good idea. Leaving a couple of pounds in the Lee 20 pound furnace is also a good idea.

I would recommend adding a pound or 2 of Linotype to the range scrap when casting 45 ACP bullets. If you aren't getting good fill out you might also have to get some tin/pewter and throw a couple of ounces of that in.

Using a paint stir stick or something similar to stir the smelting lead will help seperate out all the crud. If the lead mix is somewhat solid you need more heat. Using a lid will help retain heat in the pot.

[GuyKickinit]

Does the wind effect your temps? I was thinking of doing it just at the entrance of the garage. Getting some sustained breezes up to 17 mph. My burner has a wind shroud, but it will be no taller than the dutch oven.

[weeple2000]

I just reread your post. Pure lead is the best for hunting, because it mushrooms the best. Tin (what’s in pewter) helps the mold fill better and can increase hardness a little to a point. Antimony (found in linotype) is what makes the boolit hard. Water quenching will also harden boolits.

Hardness is needed when you want to make the boolit go faster. I suggest you start with your range scrap first, see how well your boolits turn out and start researching about hardness and boolit velocities.

You will need to know what the hardness of your range scrap is. Most is less than 12 BHN, but mine turned out being 16, because I Collected range scrap from a 25 yard range where most shot pistols with hard lead boolits. There are a lot of hardness testers for sale. To start out there is a simple test using different pencil lead hardness. Search for it in the search box on the homepage.

Using a skillet is not the easiest way to melt and pour lead. A Dutch oven with a bail, makes it a lot easier to pickup and pour the heavy lead. However, you can clip a pair of vise grips on the opposite side of the handle and it makes it a lot easier to handle.

I did pick up a set of staedtler pencils. I tried two ingots that I made. I think they might be slightly different hardness. They are on the softer side though, I think what you would expect from typical range scrap. My club is shooting a centerfire league right now. I am hoping I can make it there a couple times to grab the scrap before the league ends. I suspect there will be a greater volume of scrap until the league ends in a couple weeks..

<edit> I tested all of the ingots. I believe that 5 of them are BHN 9 and the other 6 are BHN 10. They scratched with the 4B and 3B pencils. I also tried to scratch my linotype. I wasn't able to scratch it with any of my pencils, even up to 4H. </edit>

[weeple2000]

Good going!
I have always smelted in the garage.
All I do is add a box fan at the other end of the
garage.
That is just enough to blow the smoke+ all else
out the door and away from me smelting.

I am going to try this first. I like the idea of having something over my head besides the sky in case it rains.

[weeple2000]

welcome to the world of casting, a great rewarding hobby

here is some of the best info available

http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm

I did grab Ingot to Target from that page, I will have to check out the rest of it. Any other suggestions as to what to read next?

[tazman]

Does the wind effect your temps? I was thinking of doing it just at the entrance of the garage. Getting some sustained breezes up to 17 mph. My burner has a wind shroud, but it will be no taller than the dutch oven.

Winds that high will effect everything. You need to block that wind as much as possible. All you want is a light breeze(3-5 mph if you can manage.
In windy conditions, I smelt in the doorway of my garage. The heavy breezes dpn't effect much that way.

[weeple2000]

I would smelt outside. I cast in my garage but smelting is too dirty to do in an enclosed space. Leaving 5 to the 10 pounds in your smelting pot is a good idea. Leaving a couple of pounds in the Lee 20 pound furnace is also a good idea.

I would recommend adding a pound or 2 of Linotype to the range scrap when casting 45 ACP bullets. If you aren't getting good fill out you might also have to get some tin/pewter and throw a couple of ounces of that in.

Using a paint stir stick or something similar to stir the smelting lead will help seperate out all the crud. If the lead mix is somewhat solid you need more heat. Using a lid will help retain heat in the pot.

Just the top was solid. I used a slotted spatula to grab the stuff off of the top. I know there were a lot of jackets in it. But I am wondering how much unmelted lead came off with it. You can see the material on the cookie sheet here. That is everything that came out of the 22 lbs that I did.

[tazman]

When I smelt range scrap, I get approximately 65-75% good alloy with the rest being dirt and jackets. It always looks like there is some lead in the scrap but it would be very difficult to reclaim.
I many ways, my smelting setup mirrors yours. I use a gas camp stove burner and a slotted spoon. The only real difference is I use a steel pan instead of a skillet.
I have used the pan so much that I finally burned the handle off it. I have to use a big set of channel locks to move it now.

[GregLaROCHE]

I did grab Ingot to Target from that page, I will have to check out the rest of it. Any other suggestions as to what to read next?

Get a copy of Lyman’s Cast Bullet Hadbook. There’s lots of good basic stuff in it.

Also think about getting your work area up to table top height. It will make things a lot easier.

[RED BEAR]

sounds like you are set-up pretty well. i don't smelt until completely melted. wax is not for smelting!! you smelt with something like sawdust . sawdust removes impurities and wax combines your alloy back to geather. i only have one pot so i smelt and use sawdust clean the pot and use wax for casting. i used my garage for years with the door open. now have a dedicated spot with fan in window behind pot to suck fumes out. as far as being worried about lead poisoning i think the danger is hyped way to much. it is my understanding that lead almost has to boil to give off fumes. i did have a high level reading after smelting over 1000 pounds of scrap lead and i drank coffe ate snacks and basically took no precautions . had to leave it alone or a month before levels came back to normal. had a brother that really did have lead poisoning got a month and a half stay in hospital he was a industrial painter. i like lee equipment it has preformed good for me over the years.