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Thread: 😱 metal slivers created during reloading with SDB

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


    Walter Laich's Avatar
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    Exclamation 😱 metal slivers created during reloading with SDB

    Not sure this is a machine problem or what: Only happens with .45 Colt, other SDB machine, loading .38s is fine.

    SDB
    .45 Colt
    Lead 200 and 250 grain RNFP bullets (happens with both weights)

    After I've filled the bin with reloaded ammo and am transfering the rounds to storage boxes I find a bunch of slivers (like fingernail clippings) in the box, too.

    I've tried putting the bullet straight at *** 3 but still seem to get them.

    I've got a feeling it's a simple problem--just can't figure it out

    thanks
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Are they slivers of lead or slivers of brass? I have gotten brass slivers from crimping on cases with a square (i.e. trimmed case mouth) and I have gotten slivers of lead from seating and crimping in the same operation. Without know what exactly you have, it is hard to evaluate further what the problem is.

    If lead, then you may want to lighten the crimp a little. Unless these are heavy, near max loads, there shouldn't be any problem with using a little lighter crimp.

  3. #3
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    Add more case mouth flare to allow the bullet to get started properly. I determine the proper amount of flare as when the bullet will sit in the case mouth straight without me holding it.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy


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    ^What ReloaderFred said ^
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    the slivers are lead--sorry for not giving all the info

    will try the flaring solution

    thanks to all
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Make sure the case mouth is chamfered, most dies remove the belling as soon as it enters the die and even a little bit of sharp edge can peel lead off a bullet.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
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    There are two different seat dies one for RN, the other for SWC. You might try both to see what one works better.

    Like the ones on the right.

    The slivers are coming from the bullet getting sideways before entering the case.



    Once you pick the best seating die, then play with bell, more doesn’t always help IME but neither does not enough.

    I have never chamfered a straight walled pistol case and have loaded hundreds or thousands of them without problems, once everything is set just right.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Deburr and chamfer the case mouths to a clean smooth surface. bell so the bullet can be stated into the case just below the chamfer rings lower edge. set bullet to depth carefully with a good fitting seating stem. crimp seperately only enough to hold bullet if needed.
    The chamfer deburr removes burrs and sharp edges that can grab or shave bullets it also adds some leade in to smooth the bullets travel into the case.
    The bell expand set the case to the right size for the bullet. Most dies oversize then open up to fit. The bell also provide a leade into the case and a means to set the bullet in square easier.
    The fitted stem helps to keep bullet straight and centered between the 2 points. it also gives a straighter push to the bullet.
    Seating first get the bullet in where you want it to depth with the bell intact meaning it isn't coming in and shaving the last little bit with the bullet moving and the crimp applied
    Crimping seperatly the bullet is in place and seated to depth the the crimp is applied the only thing moving is the case mouth into the crimp grove that's already alighned. Seating and crimping together may shear the corner of the crimp grove since the bullet is moving down still and the case is moving up and in.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Put as much flare in the case mouths as you need to get good ammo now, and worry about case life later. You can use as much as to scrape the ID of your seating die, won't hurt anything and you'll be "deflaring" with your crimp die. Is this progressive press your first press?
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    I had the same problem with 45 Colt. I called Dillon and the tech suggested I add more flare to the case. He asked what bullet I was loading. I answered RNFP. He also suggested replacing the seating stem with the round nose stem. Problem solved.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I have had this same problem with my SDB, loading coated home cast 9mm. It of course never happened with jacketed, and was rare with commercial coated that was sized .356. It happened with my own pills sized .357, and was worse with boolit styles with lube grooves. Some of the problem was the nose style, and got better with the right seating stem, but setting more flare seems to be the main fix overall. Whether it's a wider or deeper flare that helps I'm not sure.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master


    Walter Laich's Avatar
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    thanks for all the replies

    flared the cases a bit more (1/8 turn of powder funnel housing) and problem is resolved

    somewhere along the line was trying to keep from working brass too much and took it to extremes
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  13. #13
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    Glad it worked out. Sometimes the simplest cure is the best one.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Walter I was getting the same thing with .45 AP and made that slight adjustment and fixed it.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Well, I'd posted that my version of the problem seemed better with more case mouth flare. I spoke too soon. Still having shaving despite plenty of flare.

    I consulted Dillon. They suggested checking the shell plate (not warped, and with no debris clogging the recesses for the case rims in each of the four cut outs), under it (no accumulated grit, and the detent ball moves freely over its spring), the ram (new wave guides without excess play), the locator pins (correct for 9mm), the frame and dies (not cracked or otherwise damaged, no build up, and the correct seating stem for round nose boolits). Nothing there panned out.

    I did note that once fired and single head stamp brass was a bit less likely to shave (Dillon noted that off brands of brass may have more variation in case wall thickness, which could cause cases to flare asymmetrically), but it still happens way too often. My production rate is now something like one or two hundred rounds an hour, but that's with inspecting every round, and with a huge pile of rejects to break down. Not a happy camper here (I need five or six hundred rounds a week).

    Dillon did admit that the seating stems are, and I quote, "one size fits most". I am suspecting that this might be the main issue. I often get a circular impression on the nose of the boolit from the vent in the stem, showing that the tip is taking the pressure of seating, and that there is no contact of the rest of the cavity with the ogive. In the shaved rounds the impression is often not symmetric. I've also found that running the ram up most of the way and then gently tapping the case seems to jostle the boolit into position and reduces (but hasn't eliminated) the problem. I'm thinking the boolit needs to be nigh on perfectly straight up in the case to avoid shaving, but that, if even slightly tilted, the tip can catch in the vent hole, binding it just enough to shave one side.

    Dillon suggested the hot glue/JBWeld/epoxy modification to the stem. I'm trying this now. I made up a dummy round, ran the round up in the seating station, turned the die down until contact, then backed out a few thousandths. I disassembled the tool head, cleaned out the seating stem cavity, degreased it and then applied silicon mold release to the dummy round and the interior of the sleeve that holds the round and the stem during seating. Did the same to a straight copper wire down the vent (to keep it open). A dab of JB Weld into the cavity, and then I reassembled the press, put the dummy round back into the shell plate, and ran it into the stem and left it there. Tomorrow I'll see whether I've locked up my press permanently or if I have a properly aligned custom seating stem. Wish me luck!

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    Looks like you've covered everything.
    A real head scratcher. In 60yrs I've never heard of this problem not being solved by one of these solutions.

    I've had problems, but nothing that didn't eventually get solved, usually by me or someone else figuring out my own errors.

    Good Luck, it WILL come right in the end.
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  17. #17
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    The 9x19 round is one of those where the specifications for the case are all over the map. Variations in case wall thickness, length, rim diameter, rim thickness and extractor groove are just some of the things that vary from one manufacturer to another, and one country to another. It's a caliber that's common around the world, and I've probably got brass from nearly a dozen different countries in my buckets of 9x19 brass.

    My guess is that the perfectly fitting seater plug is going to pretty much eliminate your problem, as long as you load "that bullet". There may still be an occasional case that will cause a problem, but not nearly as many as you're having now.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    The funny thing is that I've loaded a couple hundred thousand rounds in various pistol calibers on this press (rebuilt by Dillon more than once, bless 'em) over the past 25 years or so, including commercial cast, both conventionally lubed and coated, and only recently run into this problem. Of course, I've only been casting my own recently, and am sizing larger than commercially bought boolits as well as trying different nose profiles. Makes me appreciate how hard it is for commercial casters to produce a boolit that works for everybody.

    Yeah, ReloaderFred, I started collecting various 9mm headstamps, and gave up after twenty or so, and have run into several more since.
    Last edited by kevin c; 11-11-2018 at 02:35 PM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Update:

    The custom molded seating stem works perfectly, but only at one OAL setting.

    No shaving at all with any type of brass, regardless of the number of times fired, and even sloppy positioning of the boolit over the case works, BUT, if I alter the OAL by turning the stem in or out, some shaving occurs on almost every round, even with once fired single head stamp brass and careful boolit placement. No shaving if the die is turned in or out a full 360 degrees.

    The newly loaded rounds look fine, just off on OAL. I'll see if they function in my pistols reliably, and with the correct PF for USPSA. If not, I'll need to tweak the powder throw, keeping OAL the same, or I'll have to make a new stem for the OAL desired.

    A close look at the modified stem shows the impression from the dummy round is off center. I am as sure as a mark one eyeball can tell that the dummy was concentric, and that there was no debris in the shell plate cut out that would have pushed the case too far out, and that the shell plate bolt was snug. So it's possible that seating stem and shell plate misalignment is my root problem. This may be supported by the fact that the shaving has always occurred on the same side of the round (as the round comes out of the tool head, the shaving over the case mouth is always over the same part of the shell plate cut out), and that with another style of commercial cast boolits, a slight tilt of the boolit over the case, always with the same orientation, helped to reduce the problem. But as to what's causing it, and what to do about it beyond custom fitting a stem to the OAL I want, I don't know.

    Of course, I had a million ideas as to what the problem is, and this is just the latest. Any thoughts out there?

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
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    Sounds like your seating stem might have some run out in it, if it’s messing up with adjustment in either direction. The fact that you can rotate it 360 degrees and it works again, supports this as well.

    IME seating the bullet straight is the most important part. I can get away with almost no bell flare with coated bullets if I use presses with bullet feeders that hold alignment as the bullet is being seated.

    Like this bullet that was just seated and waiting for a trip through the crimp die.


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check