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Thread: Moderate loads for .357 magnum?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    This is a good thread. I have a S&W 60-18 (5-shot J-Frame 357 with 5" barrel). I want to find a moderate load that is not also just a 38 Special +P load.

    The problem is good data is hard to find.

    Much of the data out there seems to use the 40,000 PSI SAMMI guideline form pre-'95. Vitavouri seems to use CIP which is something like 43,000 PSI (by another method). Still, above where I want to be. Lyman seems to go by a ~40,000 CUP max, which isl well over 35,000 PSI.

    I want to be something like 32-35000 PSI with a slow-to-mid range powder that will actually burn up in 5."

    But what everyone seems to offer are either cat-sneeze Bullsye/Unique/Universal/Tightgroup 38 loads or they want to give you basically a starting load with the slow magnum powders, almost all of which are inefficient. 2400/296/AA#9 all need to be pretty close to that 40K mark in order to burn well it seems. I've tried magnum primers. It helps, and AA#9 is the best of this group, but I think they are not very efficient, even with 158-168 grain bullets.

    Blue Dot seems promising. But I dislike blue dot with those big flakes. It also doesn't approach case fill. The limited testing I have done clocked ~1100 FPS. Hardly any more than 38+P

    Two powders that seem to make sense to me are AA#7, Vit 3n37, and Shooters World Heavy Pistol maybe? At least Alliant and Shootersworld have data with 357 Magnum at the 35,000 MAX. Unfortunately, vitavouri doesn't seem to publish starting load pressures, which could possibly be a good.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
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    Hi...
    I have been shooting the following load in my .357Mag revolvers for decades.
    I use 158gr commercial cast LSWC over 9.8 great of Blue Dot.
    No chronograph but my reloading manual says approximately 1200-1250fps.
    I settled on this load because it is accurate in all six of my .357Mag revolvers.

  3. #43
    Boolit Mold
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    I understand you want "moderate" loads in your 357. But you have to understand that "moderate" and 357 magnum, originally had nearly opposite meanings....at least for the first 3 or 4 decades of it's existence. I believe for a long time 7 grains of unique under a 158 gr. swc was a fairly common moderate load. But I am pretty sure the "moderate" only applies to velocity.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    158 gr pb boolit over 7 gr true blue nice accurate light load in 357 case.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    7 grains of unique under a 158 gr. swc was a fairly common moderate load.
    This load is over sammi max. 6.8 grains of Unique with a LSWC is Alliants post 95 max load which is no longer listed (it was dropped down to 6). You can find this in the Lee manual. 7 grains of Unique is NOT a moderate load it is a full powered load by any reckoning.

    6.5 grains of unique is thrown around as a moderate load. My testing with a 4" model 19 has show it to not achieve even 1000 FPS. It's typically around 950. For comparison 38+P (in 38 brass) can run at 900 FPS with 5.5 grains of unique. Unique is a fast burning powder...only small charge weight changes result in pressure spikes.

    I am convinced that a moderate burn rate powder slower than unique and faster than 2400 is needed. Bluedot is what I have tried so far, but getting 1100 FPS, my target velocity, has not occured even with 10 grains which is near a max load and probably running over 30kPSI.

    12 grains of 2400 is another option, but I don't like 2400 at backed off pressures. It is dirty and wasteful and not particularly accurate.

    I was thinking PowerPistol may be a good option but I cannot find cast/lead bullet data for it.

  6. #46
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curioushooter View Post

    I was thinking PowerPistol may be a good option but I cannot find cast/lead bullet data for it.
    There is data available for PowerPistol using a jacketed 158 grain bullet. Since the burn rate for PowerPistol is only slightly less than Unique, you can compare the load data and back off the appropriate amount from the jacketed loads.
    The load data for Unique and PowerPistol are nearly the same for jacketed. Both in charge weight and achieved velocity. Posted difference is .2 grains and less than 30fps(2001 data manual). Not certain you would be any happier with it.
    I wish Alliant would show a starting load with their data.

  7. #47
    Boolit Buddy mr surveyor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curioushooter View Post
    This load is over sammi max. 6.8 grains of Unique with a LSWC is Alliants post 95 max load which is no longer listed (it was dropped down to 6). You can find this in the Lee manual. 7 grains of Unique is NOT a moderate load it is a full powered load by any reckoning.

    6.5 grains of unique is thrown around as a moderate load. My testing with a 4" model 19 has show it to not achieve even 1000 FPS. It's typically around 950. For comparison 38+P (in 38 brass) can run at 900 FPS with 5.5 grains of unique. Unique is a fast burning powder...only small charge weight changes result in pressure spikes.

    I am convinced that a moderate burn rate powder slower than unique and faster than 2400 is needed. Bluedot is what I have tried so far, but getting 1100 FPS, my target velocity, has not occured even with 10 grains which is near a max load and probably running over 30kPSI.

    12 grains of 2400 is another option, but I don't like 2400 at backed off pressures. It is dirty and wasteful and not particularly accurate.

    I was thinking PowerPistol may be a good option but I cannot find cast/lead bullet data for it.

    Have you considered AA#7?


    jd

  8. #48
    Boolit Buddy
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    The 6.0 Unique LSWC load was started around the the Speer #10 manual. They said it was the load, using their swaged bullet, that provided the max velocity with freedom from leading, or words to that effect. 6.2 Unique with a lswc bullet has always been a decent midrange .357 load.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hick View Post
    4 grains of Titegroup under almost anything
    You can even use it for light rifle loads. Good stuff.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    Curiousshooter, 32-35k psi and the term "moderate load" are pretty much mutually exclusive when we're talking about .357 mag.

    Are you just looking for a max-saami pressure loads using faster powders?

  11. #51
    Boolit Buddy
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    Just an observation with a question: have you considered hot .38s? Power pistol with a 158 boolit at a 6-6.5 gr charge will get you around 1000 fps easily

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    I just made up some loads for my 3" Model 60. 125 gr. jhp over 7.0 Titegroup. 1150 fps out of my 5" m27and not at all unpleasant to shoot in the m60. Was thinking of batching up some 95/2.5/2.5 alloy to see how well it would work with that charge. Have not chrono'd it out of the m60 yet.
    Last edited by Cosmic_Charlie; 04-17-2020 at 09:12 AM.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by curioushooter View Post
    This is a good thread. I have a S&W 60-18 (5-shot J-Frame 357 with 5"
    That would be a nice barrel length to have. How old is it?

  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy
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    The K-frames are not " weak sisters " . they do have their limitations , "hot loads using 125gr bullets loaded over a max charge of H-110 /W296 " . Several yrs ago I was in a LGS . He had a Ruger Security Six that was the " loosest " hand gun I have ever seen . Ruger builds fine hand guns . My point is any gun can be ruined . I will tell you that my everyday load in my 19's is 7.0 grs of Unique using a 158-173 gr cast bullet . I have shot a boat load of those in my 19's over the years . My manuals are the older ones , which was current when I bought them . My guns are as tight as the day I bought them . Regards Paul

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    The Lee FCD is decent as a resizer tho...it offers minimal sizing for cast bullets. I made a decapping adapter for mine.

    They botched the math on sizing. It may be ok for jacketed but it usually squeezes down a cast bullet resulting in leading and poor accuracy.

  16. #56
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Luber View Post
    The Lee FCD is decent as a resizer tho...it offers minimal sizing for cast bullets. I made a decapping adapter for mine.

    They botched the math on sizing. It may be ok for jacketed but it usually squeezes down a cast bullet resulting in leading and poor accuracy.
    I have the Lee FCD dies for 5 different handgun calibers and none of them cause those problems for me.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I have the Lee FCD dies for 5 different handgun calibers and none of them cause those problems for me.
    works well for me also
    kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check