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Thread: 100 yard accuracy

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Most important in .22 rimfire is the chamber.

    Typical "sporting" .22 LR chambers are larger in diameter and longer to permit reliable function, free chambering and extraction in semi-auto firearms.

    "Match" chambers used in bolt-action and single-shot target rifles are close to maximum cartridge dimensions and are shorter, such that the bearing surface of the bullet is pre-engraved by the origin of rifling upon chambering.

    Some hybrid chambers such as "Bentz" are used for semi-auto competition rifles and pistols, in which the rear of the chamber body is similar to the sporting chamber, but the mouth of the chamber is close to max. cartridge and the length of the chamber is such that the bullet impinges lightly against the rifling. The interference fit is not enough to impair semi-auto function, but provides a more consistent shot-start than a sloppy, sporting chamber.

    Unplated, greased or waxed standard velocity or match-grade ammunition fired in a match chamber will shoot minute of angle at 100 yards.

    Ordinary high velocity ammunition of good quality will shoot under 2 m.o.a. in a match chamber most of the time.

    Any .22 LR ammunition which shoots 2-inch, ten-shot, 100-yard groups from a sporting chambered .22 rifle with scope should be considered VERY good and you should go buy it all!
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  2. #22
    Boolit Master



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    certain ammo is more accurate than others...so yes I would say that ammo is a factor
    Using my Mossberg model 40B, with peep-sights, I can hold the groups down such that they are not more than 1-1/2" at 100 yds
    The biggest problem at 100 yds and using peep-sights is that the target has to be clearly lit (think sunshine) otherwise I can't find the target !
    Death to every foe and traitor and hurrah, my boys, for freedom !

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The sporter weight 22s are hard to get to recoil the same every shot on the bench. Triggers may not be as good as the match grade rifles. chambers vary in sporter rifles since they are meant to chamber every type of ammo out there. 22 rimfire varies a lot from maker to maker and even lot to lot.

    Good wind flags are needed since that little 40 grn slug is in the wind longer than other ammo is.

    Gaging ammo and segregating it by rim thickness, length to ogive and bullet dia can show an improvement in accuracy. Testing as many different ammos as you can may show a real winner. The better 22 shooters test a lot of ammo and even different lot numbers of the same then buy a large amount of the best for the rifle.

    I have shot the 22 rimfire out to 200yds testing ammo and it will do good. the transition is a true issue and high velocity may go thru this under 100 yds.

  4. #24
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    One minute of angle is 1.0471996" at 100 yards. It'd be half that at at 50 yards, so just over 1/2" there.

    To get that sort of accuracy you need the firearm to be consistent, and the shooter to be consistent as well.

    Breathing, heart beat, proper hold, all of those need to be together

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Both my Krico and Sportco mod 15 bolt guns will shoot 40mm (1.1/2 inch groups at the 100 mark with ammo of their choice, Federal bulk in the Krico and Winchester in the Sportco, both scoped of cause. If I could shoot better I am sure this could be improved on. Regards Stephen

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Sheesh View Post

    Breathing, heart beat, proper hold, all of those need to be together
    Feet are important,too. If the bench fits good, pay attention to the heel/toe pressure to the ground. Steady and relaxed. Always the same.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master


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    Of all calibers the .22lr seems to have the greatest variance in chambers and ammo. I have seen 12-15 different reamers for the .22 chamber. Bulk and inexpensive ammo varies all over the place in velocity,length, bullet diameter and bullet profile.
    Add to that most 22 rifles are the lower priced firearms. Poor bedding,poor triggers and inexpensive materials are the norm. For every accurate 22 rifle there are 20 box store 22s.
    To shoot tight groups a good rifle,good ammo,good shooter and a stable platform/rest are needed.

  8. #28
    Boolit Mold Gammelmann2's Avatar
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    As an erstwhile silhouette shooter, I'd say any rifle/ammo combination that will shoot into 2" is very good. Considering the 100 yd. ram's body is about 4" deep, that only gives one a 1" margin for error standing on your little flat feet, not to mention windage.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    2-2 1/2 inches is pretty darn good "consistently" for a factory sporter. I have shot groups you could cover with a nickle in dead calm air, but even with fancy flags I ain't good enough to compensate for a breeze.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Yep, reading the wind is a real talent. I could never shoot as good a score at 100meters as I did at 50, I stink at reading wind. A Sporter that shoots 2 inches consistently will hold the 10 ring on the 100yard ISSF target, not bad. I only have one Sporter that can do any better, got 1 group at an inch, once. Consistently it is closer to 1 3/4, but groups are wider than tall, on me due to wind.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  11. #31
    Boolit Master

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    In your other thread, where I mentioned getting 5/8" out of a Winchester 52 at 100 yards on an indoor range?

    The object of that day was to prep for an ISU smallbore match by testing different ammo types in a really controlled wind-free environment at double the range we intended to compete at - for the sole purpose of making any defect in the ammo quality easier to detect. We never really intended to make a habit of it.

    The whole ammo system works against you with .22LR:

    A stamped sheet metal case that gets crushed on one side to fire it? Not great for concentricity.

    A stumpy, blunt-nosed, heel based bullet? How did THAT become a formula for long range success?

    Your most potentially consistent ammo is the stuff that starts out subsonic. . .which results in more bullet drop and more wind drift. The higher speed stuff is flatter trajectory, but suffers from going subsonic on the way out, and is usually not produced to the same quality as the slower stuff.

    My understanding is the sport of BR50 died out because no matter how awesome the gun, those factors would always limit the ammo and the shooters would always be at the mercy of those who make it, as opposed to handloaders of centerfire rounds who have A LOT more control over their own destiny.

    So, to stay sane and not let OCD have free reign over my psyche, I always try to start by asking myself "what is this tool for?" In the case of a sporter weight .22, that tool is for potting small game or just having fun. For that, the less-consistent-on-paper high velocity ammo is probably more PRACTICALLY accurate at 100 yards that the top shelf match ammo that drops like a rock past 50 yards and blows around in the wind like a tumbleweed. If it's holding about 2 MOA and reliably whacking soup cans and 1/2 liter water bottles, that more than suffices for what the tool is for in my eyes.
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  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    With my favorite .22s, I'm happy if I can keep them in a gallon milk jug at 100 or on a beer can at 50yds. Off hand, iron sights, CCI Std Vel bulk ammo. I've recently acquired a few scoped .22s but haven't really done anything with them at 100 yds. Eyes are forcing me into optics, takes a lot of the fun out of it for me.

    Favorite rifle is an old Stevens 44 single shot with a globe front and tang rear sights.

  13. #33
    Boolit Bub
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    I'm with ya on that "eye" thing. Been shooting old 22s like a Win 1906 pump & Stevens Favorite 1915 since I was a lad. Still work ok for me outside with decent lighting. So, last year I put together my first scoped 22. It's a Savage A22. I'm aware of the bad reviews on the rifle, but I'm a big fan of the receiver/barrel assembly method on their rifles which is steel receiver & barrel nut. And, it turned out to be very capable of accuracy. My rifle actually came with a defect in the hammer/trigger arrangement in that it had a rolled edge (Burr) which caused the hammer to hang-up on a slow trigger release (misfires). So, I just took it all apart, cleaned the offending edge with a stone. Also polished engagements for the trigger & hammer as well as the "accutrigger". It's a thumbhole target model. Once I found the best bench rest hold (near zero checkweld & minimal grip at the thumbhole), I was shooting increasingly better 100 yd groups. Scope is a "rimfire" series at 18x. Targets were 3/4" florescent dots (Walmart) stuck to cardboard. I finished by shooting two consecutive 5 shot groups (2 dots) with all shots inside or touching the dots (several just barely touching). Stroke of luck or not, I know this is a great 22. There was mention of "short" chambers giving best accuracy. I have noticed that chambered rounds I extract are not easily removed & have very slight rifling marks showing. I tried a number of cartridges & was surprised with results from Blaser Brass 22s. This is a HV load which seemed to shoot as well as several SV cartridges tried. Trying to shoot rimfire silhouettes with this rifle..now, just to get better at the hard stuff (offhand).

    BTW, I'm shooting 5 shot groups due to fatigue I frequently suffer at our club bench rest. I'm wearing double ear protection, but still bothered by short barreled 5.56 rifles being fired close by (I have concussion syndrome issues). And, we have a covered firing line. Oh my.

    Best,
    Slim

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    The OP has used the words "expectations" and "common sporting type rifles". He's not asking what's possible with no restrictions. I shot .22lr matches for many years and I've owned some not just good common type rifles, I've owned some great ones. Currently, I believe that CZ offers some out of the box guns that will shoot an expected five shot group of 1.0-1.5" using premium target ammo when there's no wind blowing and lighting conditions are near perfect. This would also require a very good shooter using proper bags and technique to rest the gun. Anyone who says they can do it "all day long" or some such language isn't being honest with themself or anyone else. I hear this all the time, but I never see it at the range or during a match. Anschutz may edge out CZ by a small margine, but it's not really "common". I think the OP is talking about guns such as CZ, Ruger, etc. Ammo is everything with any gun, expensive or less expensive. Every gun will have a distinct preference and that will vary from lot to lot. Anyone who tells you that they can do it with Stingers, etc is really stretching reality. It just doesn't happen. Go to a match and talk to the shooters who are winning as pose this question to them.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    100 yard Standing Off Hand with a Cal. .30 M1 Carbine is good if ten shots out of ten hit a 12 inch steel 'gong'.
    Better is a 3" circle with the same ten shots.
    Best is anything under 2" ten shot pattern with the Carbine.

    Chev. William

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    I saw 2 girls shooting amazing groups about 1973. I asked the man with them how good they could shoot off a bench rest because they were shooting prone, outside on the ground at a range in north central Texas where it is windy most of the time. The man John Chapman said they were culling Eley ammo to find the best lots for match use. He said their rifles grouped best when fired prone with a sling. He also said testing the ammo in a little wind helped identify lots of ammo that did not shoot so well.
    Anyway those girls were Schuyler Helbing and Sue Ann Sandusky both world class shooters. Their 10 shot groups varied between 1" and 1.5" at 100 yards. That was totally amazing compared to my scoped M69A Winchester off a benchrest.
    Sandusky was shooting an Anschutz and Helbing was shooting a rifle made by John Chapman.
    EDG

  17. #37
    Boolit Master gnostic's Avatar
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    To shoot groups 1 inch or less, you'll need a free floated bolt gun and handloads, with the bullet either touching the lands or very close. I've owned many Remingtons, 700, 600, that would shoot 3/4'' with a 3-9x scope. You'll need a light, clean braking trigger and a target that minimizes sighting error. Don't run the ammo through the magazine, as that causes runout. The barrel has to be clean, no copper fouling. So, yes a factory rifle will shoot sub MOA, but you have put a lot of effort into the process...

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    EDG---- This is far from the first time I have heard of or seen women who are fine shots.
    I have been beaten so often by women shooters in both firearms and archery shooting that I have come to expect it.
    I am only mediocre in firearms but with bow and arrow I was very good. As in state champion good. It didn't matter. There is always somebody out there who is better.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I have four different centerfire rifles that I can consistently shoot .3” inch groups at 200 yards if I do my part and keep it steady on the bench. My avatar is from my POFP 415 with a 14 1/2 inch barrel at 100 yards off the bench of course. It’s a load consisting of 25 grains of benchmark in a 60 grain Hornaday Vmax. That short little barreled AR shot a .3” inch group at 200 yards right after that with my first try! I’ve drilled quite a few coyotes with that thing but I still prefer to use my 243 bolt action 26 inch heavy barrel that shoots even tighter. As said above, a clean barrel, free floated barrel, an extremely light trigger, and a bedded action...I prefer hs Precision full length bedding bock stocks.

    But I believe the op asking about rimfire. To be honest with you I never tried to shoot for groups at 100 yards with a 22 LR. I have a CZ 452 ultra lux that I bought used the winter before last. I never clean the barrel and I never checked the inch pound torque on the action screws and took it out and tested a bunch of ammo and the best groups I was getting were five shot half inch groups at 50 yards with cheap Winchester bulk ammo. I actually clean the barrel about A week ago for the first time, switched optics from a 2x7 to a 3 x 9 mil dot, and torqued my action screws to 22 inch pounds. I took it out and shot the first five shot test group at 50 yards that shot just under a half inch with cci stingers that are not supposed to shoot good in every CZ on the planet!



    The other ammo that shot good in it before I did the cleaning and action torquing were the cheap Winchester bulk pack 333 HPs. They were consistently about a half inch five shot group site 50 yards. I didn’t retest them at 50 yards after cleaning the barrel and torquing the action but at 25 yards I shot five that all went basically in the same hole. I did have fun though and messed with the mil dots. Once I figured out that I could hit dead center at 100 yards with a second mil dot down I hit 11 rocks the size of quarters and fifty cent pieces in a row. It’s a fun, long, accurate gun. I did also change the spring out in the Trigger. A $.12 spring from Ace Hardware took that trigger down to just a hair under a pound. I was going to Accra glass bed it but I think it’s shooting tight enough groups the way it is I’m gonna leave it alone.



    I can tell you that my favorite rimfire is my cheap plain Jane all black 22 inch 22WMR Ruger American. I polished the trigger group and changed the trigger spring out on that one too and it breaks at about a pound. The first time I took that out and shot it I only tried two different types of ammo. The first I tried was Winchester 2250 ft./s varmint ammo. I shot a .647” and .684” with two different three shot groups at 100 yards in a row. I’ve then tested the Winchester 2200 ft./s Vmax ammo. I shot two groups of three in a row and measured .313” in .324”. Can I do this freehand?...probably not. But at least I know if I have a solid steady rest and take my time and slowly squeeze the trigger it’s going to hit exactly where I’m aiming. I also make sure when I’m out hunting to try and lean my rifle up against a tree, branch, or some type of rest when I’m shooting long distance.

    I’m sure if you take all day like I do at the range and practice slowly squeezing the trigger and breath control and not being in a hurry to rush the shot I bet you you’ll improve your groups. I also aim small miss small. I noticed that at the range the other day shoot my 22 LR. I was shooting for the center of a 1 inch square when sighting my gun in with the new scope at 25 yards. My shots were not touching. I then took my time and decided to aim at one of the bullet holes and put four rounds in one of the bullet holes. That hole with five shots in it was barely bigger in diameter then one 22lr bullet hole in the paper.

    Will my guns shoot consistently like this?... probably not because it’s a rimfire and most rimfire ammunition is cheaply mass produced and is never consistent. But it sure is fun to try! I haven’t gone out shooting 22s since the early 90s. I’ve only had one 22lr semi automatic buckmark 5.5 target pistol with a red dot over the years and still own it. I did have a few 22s when I was a kid on and off but I got rid of every one of them trading them for something else. I got a wild hair up my Wazzu the winter before last to get a couple of rimfire rifles to go small game hunting with. It was the best decision I ever made because I picked out two dandies like to shoot tight groups! I’ve shot squirrels and small game up to 150 yards with that 22 WMR so far and they don’t move like they were hit by the hammer of Thor. With my CZ 22lr I’ve shot squirrels up to 55 yards so far. They like to crawl off before they die unless I hit them right in the melon. It’s amazing how tough squirrels are. I remember back in the early 90s are used to go out and head shoot squirrels with that buck mark 5.5 target and they never moved with Remington golden ammo. For some reason it doesn’t shoot nearly as tight in my pistol anymore. It Seems to favor the Winchester bulk ammo just like my CZ for some reason now.

    I did try at least a dozen types of ammo in my CZ 452 ultra lux before I found some tight shooting brands. Aguilas I can’t hit the broadside of a barn with. I bought two of the fastest options they make and I shot like a 6 inch and a 9 inch group at 50 yards with them just horrible. This was before I cleaned and torqued my gun though. I think one of the better groups was with the cci velocitor ammo which was a .7” inch that day at 50 yards. I did shoot a couple of squirrels with that I am on I wasn’t that much more impressed over the Winchester bulk back hollow points.

    I tell you if you own an inch pound torque wrench to check your action screws. I believe CZ tells you a 25 inch pounds on the front and rear. I went on one of the rimfire forums and it sounds like 22 inch pounds on front and rear were the most accurate for most people so I tried it the other day and shot the above group with the first try. I did notice I could see a lot better with the cheap tasco mil dot scope that I put on this time around replacing it from the Leupold 2 x 7 that had parallax at 150 yards so everything looked blurry at close range. I tell you to clean the snot out of your barrel to and then go out and shoot a good dozen times before you start testing groups.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-18-2020 at 11:24 AM.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    I have two CZ 452:s from the 90's. They have suppressors,some trigger work and minor stock work done.

    Neither has a bull barrel,the other has a shortened barrel,the other being my "22 Sniper" -rifle with a 3-12x50 Leupold mildot scope,canted .

    There was this "22Sniper" - competition some years back. We had all kinds of fun targets,also zippo sized "man' targets, one "no shoot" target might be in between two "shoot" targets of the same size at 120 meters which was the longest range. You drop a "shoot zippo" for score,if you drop a no shoot,negative score... like a hostage situation..


    The best shooters had no problems with them, standard 452's were common. it's all about finding the right ammo. Obviously 2 moa won't do.
    Last edited by Petander; 01-18-2020 at 08:46 PM. Reason: Typos

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