Baikal (Remington) 45-70 Problem

[hoku]

I have been a silent reader on this forum for a long time. I guess I needed a catalysis of some kind to make me take the step and join the forum. Thus I come as a new member needing help with a serious problem.

I have a brand new Remington (Baikal) MR221 45-70 SXS. I just bought this gun as new, never fired, Old never sold stock at a small gun shop in the Mts. Since this Baikal is branded Remington, I first contacted Remington. No Joy, Remington wants nothing to do with this rifle even though they sold it and has their name on the receiver, box and paper work. I then contacted US Sporting Goods in Florida, the actual importer. They also will not provide any help on the Remington (Baikal). I have sent Baikal in Russia a email that they never answered. I asked a local small gunsmith, he wanted nothing to do with the Russian rifle……said he knew nothing about them.

This is not my first SXS double rifle. I own a Sabatti Big Five Classic in 375 Flanged Nitro Express. Its very expensive to buy ammo for and equally expensive to reload. I felt the Remington MR221 in 45-70 being cheap to shoot and very reasonable to reload would be ideal. I am now thinking I made a huge mistake and have a orphan.

When I got her home, I gave the Gun a good cleaning and oiling, then I then put the Barrels on the action and the fore end in place and closed the action. I took the gun out to my own range to do some shooting. I was ready to go……wrong. I went to push the top lever to break the gun open to load. The top lever would not move, not even wiggle. The top lever was locked up tight. I applied some reasonable pressure to the top lever, she still did not move. I quit that as I did not want to break the top lever off.

So there I am, stuck, can’t break open the gun. At least the gun is NOT LOADED ! Yes, I know that a protruding firing pin can cause break open issues. This is not a protruding firing pin as the top lever simply won’t move. I did remove the stock to see inside the action. I see no obvious issues.

Can you help me on how to open the action when the top lever simply will not move. And then what caused this failure.

Thank You
hoku

[thegatman]

Check with Numrich Arms to see if they have a top lever and spare parts. That is in case you break it getting it open.

[country gent]

Curious here Did the lever move before the gun it was assembled or closed? May be manufacturing crud binding it up. The first thing is to get it opened up. You might try a very light tapping with a rubber hammer straight down on the lever above the pin. This might loosen it or jar any debris loose. A very light tapping done a a quick pace for a short period of time, Its the vibration pattern that does the work here. Another is to soak it a few days with a good penetrating type oil like kroil. Some of the water soluable oils in manufacturing today are like a glue when they dry out. The penetrating oil will soften this and if its rust help there also.

If its an overly tight fit somewhere then things get interesting. Since no one wants to claim this rifle, I suspect parts will be all most impossible to find.

[Walks]

Did it open & close ok when you looked at it in the store ?

[725]

not knowing the rifle, either, i'd check if the safety is on / off, dry fire in a safe direction, ?????

[hoku]

Yes, at the gun shop, it opened and closed, as normal. Brought it home in the original box, broken down. Cleaned and oiled it well, and assembled the barrels to the action. The top lever worked smooth and the action/barrels closed normal. The joy ended when I walked out to may range and went to open the gun to load. The top lever was locked as tight as a bank vault. The gun is NOT LOADED. With the stock off, I can reach in and manually cock the hammers.
The Safety works, and both triggers work. If something broke inside when she closed, I bet I am a world of hurt for parts. I will try the tapping to dislodge and foreign material that may be stuck.

Thank You
hoku

[redhawk0]

Just did a little google search...what seems to be a common problem is that this action is very stiff until broken in. The suggestion I read was to shoot at least 100 rounds through it...then strip it, remove all grease (that may contain metal shavings)...and put it back together again...and they seem to break in after that.

I know you haven't fired it yet...but what I came away with from the above is that there may be some metal shavings in your action...so the advice of tapping may be your best bet for freeing it up.

redhawk

[Petrol & Powder]

Years ago I had a Baikal O/U shotgun that I had to send back to the importer (I think in may have been EAA at the time) but I believe they are no longer handling Baikal products. You might be out of luck concerning the importer.
With that in mind, you might as well try to get it open on your own. You don't have much to lose at this point.

The above advice is all good.

I think the tapping is an excellent place to start. Oil wouldn't hurt.
If you can remove the stock and get to the bolt, you may be able to put a punch on it and back it out that way.

[pietro]

.

I'm glad you decided to become an active board member - Welcome !


Either you or your gunsmith should remove the buttstock & forend, then see if the barrels can be removed after cocking the hammers and levering the locking bar towards the rear from inside the action.

Once that's done, the action should be dis-assembled to find out what's up in there.

.

[hoku]

Thanks Pietro for your reply. Your suggestion is what I am up to doing tomorrow afternoon. I already have the forend and buttstock off. Manually cocked the hammers from inside the action. Its still locked up. Tomorrow I will try to move the locking bar to the rear......very gently, hoping not to break anything. I will keep the forum posted on what I find.

Thank You hoku

[jmort]

I got two SxS Bikals, internal hammers. They were tuned by The gunsmith Evil Roy uses. He knows these guns real good. Here is the link
http://evilroy.com/gunsmithing-by-griner-gunworks/
Good luck with this. Once they start working they will keep on working for a long time.

[KCSO]

First remove the butt stock and check for either crud or a broken spring or lever. The top lever should have a connection to the safety and if so it may be either broken or hung up. If it is still stuck you will need to make a tool to retract the bolt by hand and disassemble the gun from the back side. Slip off the fore end and make sure there is nothing haning up in there. These are a real pain but they can be fixed.

[hoku]

Thanks all for the tips and the link to gunsmith Ken Griner. I started opening her up. I have the bottom plate off and can see a little, very little inside. I 'looks' like a pivot point is off the stud it rides on which is directly below the lever pivot point. I am going slow and am now down to driving pins out to get deeper inside. Its to late and I am to tired to start on driving pins out. Thats a job for tomorrow afternoon.

I will say one thing for Mr Putin's gun makers. The inside edges are as sharp as a knife. No inside edges so far have the sharp edge broken. I know, I already cut the end of my finger on the bottom edge of the bottom plate. I hope when I get down to the problem I can get some pictures to post in case someone else ever has this problem. I will keep you all posted on the progress

Thank You
hoku

[KenT7021]

Good luck!

[CLAYPOOL]

I like the "SOAKING WITH KROLL" guy, that is very good too. Use photos for reference for re - assembly ...

[skeettx]

http://issuu.com/eaacorp/docs/ussg_m...30521/50045860

http://eaacorp.com/

[nekshot]

I really wish your problem was my problem! At least then I would have a factory double rifle. welcome aboard and I do not think you have a piece of junk. I have used my impact hammer(air ) to vibrate the situation at hand while blow liquid into the innerds. You have plenty of good advice here and you will get it going. I recently bought 2 sets of ar sights off amazon for around 14 bucks a set. They are aluminum and work very good, however they had some negative comments that I felt were milling bits related. I got mine and cleaned them as far as I could and they were dirty. Oiled them and they work as good as the expensive ones. I think you will find the same with your gun.

[hoku]

We have Joy, the Action in now open……with no damage ! I will detail what I found/did, my plan before reassembly and maybe more. Hopefully this may help someone else in the future.

Late last night, I found the following article on the web. Here is the URL

http://www.ktgunsmith.com/baikal.htm

Tuning a Baikal Bounty Hunter II for Cowboy Action Shooting.
The article is really good with good pictures, which made a complete tear down quick and easy….also reassembly. I suggest you save that article incase it ever goes west on the web.

First an very important you will need a quality set of brass punches and a quality Gunsmith screw driver with a hex shaft so you can use a ‘small 3 inch wrench to aid in loosening the screws and a 1911 armors block. The pins once inserted by Baikal were dimpled on each end…they don’t come out easy. You have to hit the punch with authority ! The screws are like they were put in with a air wrench/driver. The screwdriver with the hex shaft and a small wrench and a lot of effort turned them loose.

You guys were absolutely correct in suggesting that foreign matter may be locking up the action and now allowing the locking bolt to pull back. It takes a total tear down to get the locking bolt out. First, inside the action was dirt, course dirt, maybe sawdust, it was terrible. But when the bolt was tapped out, a piece of steel that looks like a piece of turning came out. That was what was wedging the locking bolt. Mr Putin, needs to tell these guys to wash the actions out and do a clean room assembly !!!! In the Picture, I put the piece of turning on top of the water table on the receiver for all to see. No matter of tapping, hoping and wishing was going to get that out with less than a total tear down.

I have to figure out how to post pictures. Here is a link to my web site with the picture. The link will take to directly to the picture. Double click on the thumbnail for full screen

https://photos.imageevent.com/moosec...baikal%202.JPG

Now, my thoughts and plans;
The main receiver is milled clean but with sharp edges. The hammers are machined quite nicely.
All other internal parts look like they were made in a 1st year high school shop. The sears look like they were cut with a bastard file. But the good….internal parts are really simple design, meaning they can me made if need be by anyone who has good fab skills or your gunsmith. So we can keep this Baikal running long into the future. I suspect all Baikal break open action guns are close to being the same.

Before re-assembly all internal parts will be cleaned up and stoned smooth. The sears will be ‘lightly stoned to eliminate the present tool marks on the surface of the sears. If you read the article mentioned above, its aimed for CAS events. Guess they have timed events ? and the author wants a gun that will open quick and easy ? I will not cut coils of the hammer springs, I want absolute authority when the hammer drops. I will not cut coils off the top lever/bolt closing spring so it opens and closes faster. Again I want the bolt to go into the barrels with authority to lock them up like a bank vault.

I have already removed the auto safety engage lever. In my opinion its a accident waiting to happen.
We should not EVER put our trust into auto features to activate SAFE on a gun. I load it, I safe it, I shoot it, I safe it. I know the safe is on or off.

My opinion, right now, this is going to be a real nice rifle when Its back together. It will work the way we all expect a rifle to work. I was lucky to get a decent piece of walnut stock one this gun. Its not the greatest, and no cheek piece. I may restock her this winter with some really nice wood…time will tell. Another side note. Looking for clues to my problem on the web, I found many asking what will remove the White Logos on the gun. Looking at them close, believe they are etched on and no remover will get them off. A polish and blue is the only way….at least I think that is true.

Thanks for all your help/suggestions. I hope this write up may help someone else. Oh, I am not leaving the forum, I am just a guy who does not post all the time……I don’t have time to ha ha

Mr Putin told me he does not use Baikal, he uses Sako and Holland & Holland LOL

hoku

[redhawk0]

Thanx for the update...I'm glad you got things worked out. Let us know how it shoots too. It does sound like a diamond in the rough...real rough...but like you said, it should provide good service for years to come now that you've given it some cleanup and attention.

redhawk

[skeettx]

What I did was take https://photos.imageevent.com/moosec...baikal%202.JPG
and put an [img] in the front of the string and an [/img] in the back of the string

Good luck and thank you for sharing

Mike