So tell I’m paranoid

[azrednek]

I want to add my two cents for what it's worth. First of all good to be back among the living after a long illness.

What grabbed my attention was the 357 LCR. I used to carry a 357 snubby but began carrying std pressure 38's. While serving as a juror on a grand jury we heard a case involving self defense. Details on the SD shooting were sketchy at best. Good guy shot a bad guy and was cleared as being justified. The good guy however was indicted for a serious assault charge despite mine and another no vote. Bullet went through the bad guy and struck a woman that was in no way involved with the incident. We were told woman had surgery and an overnight hospital stay. I asked cop what kind of gun, he responded 357 and before cop could finish. The prosecutor shut him up and gave me the "this is not CSI" lecture. The cop was not allowed to answer questions in regards to the SD incident.
I have no idea of the final disposition of the case and can only assume after the indictment the good guy had to deal with a serious assault charge.

That night I removed the 357's from my carry gun and began carrying 38's. The laws on stray bullets likely vary state to state. In Arizona despite being a justified shooting the shooter sent a blank check to the innocent woman. As the OP mentioned, crowds or gangs and even if it is a justifiable shooting. The over penetrating bullet could easily buy the shooter some jail time and being tagged for life as a convicted felon and prohibited possessor.

IMHO, the bad guy should shoulder the responsibility but at least in Arizona the good guy likely spent a small fortune in legal fees. Hopefully he had the financial resources, a good lawyer and beat the assault charge.

Lately I've been carrying 380 SilverTips or 9MM Mak HP's. Being a wheel gun guy when I do carry a revolver, it's std velocity lead 38's. I'm going to look into the Charter Arms Pug chambered in 45 Colt. I'll load it with a big heavy slug but keep the velocity mild.

[JBinMN]

Sorry about that.

No need to be. At least on my account.

[JBinMN]

I want to add my two cents for what it's worth. First of all good to be back among the living after a long illness.

What grabbed my attention was the 357 LCR. I used to carry a 357 snubby but began carrying std pressure 38's. While serving as a juror on a grand jury we heard a case involving self defense. Details on the SD shooting were sketchy at best. Good guy shot a bad guy and was cleared as being justified. The good guy however was indicted for a serious assault charge despite mine and another no vote. Bullet went through the bad guy and struck a woman that was in no way involved with the incident. We were told woman had surgery and an overnight hospital stay. I asked cop what kind of gun, he responded 357 and before cop could finish. The prosecutor shut him up and gave me the "this is not CSI" lecture. The cop was not allowed to answer questions in regards to the SD incident.
I have no idea of the final disposition of the case and can only assume after the indictment the good guy had to deal with a serious assault charge.

That night I removed the 357's from my carry gun and began carrying 38's. The laws on stray bullets likely vary state to state. In Arizona despite being a justified shooting the shooter sent a blank check to the innocent woman. As the OP mentioned, crowds or gangs and even if it is a justifiable shooting. The over penetrating bullet could easily buy the shooter some jail time and being tagged for life as a convicted felon and prohibited possessor.

IMHO, the bad guy should shoulder the responsibility but at least in Arizona the good guy likely spent a small fortune in legal fees. Hopefully he had the financial resources, a good lawyer and beat the assault charge.

Lately I've been carrying 380 SilverTips or 9MM Mak HP's. Being a wheel gun guy when I do carry a revolver, it's std velocity lead 38's. I'm going to look into the Charter Arms Pug chambered in 45 Colt. I'll load it with a big heavy slug but keep the velocity mild.

Azredneck,

Welcome back!


Thanks for the "real life" anecdote & info!

[Wayne Smith]

A week and a half ago I went to a Virginia Beach Police training for Church security teams. After the training we had a feedback session. One of the attendees questioned the use of bullet proof vests. The officer running the program answered - "Since you are twice as likely to be struck by lightening than be involved in a shooting situation, if you give them vests you otta give them lightening rods as well. They will be more useful".

Different perspective on the issue - we are more likely to be involved in a child kidnapping (non-custodial parent) than in a shooting situation. We are much more likely to have to deal with a heart attack or other medical emergency - how prepared are we to handle these things?

Yes, I know this varies with locality.

[sawinredneck]

A week and a half ago I went to a Virginia Beach Police training for Church security teams. After the training we had a feedback session. One of the attendees questioned the use of bullet proof vests. The officer running the program answered - "Since you are twice as likely to be struck by lightening than be involved in a shooting situation, if you give them vests you otta give them lightening rods as well. They will be more useful".

Different perspective on the issue - we are more likely to be involved in a child kidnapping (non-custodial parent) than in a shooting situation. We are much more likely to have to deal with a heart attack or other medical emergency - how prepared are we to handle these things?

Yes, I know this varies with locality.

Very good points to consider, thank you.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I carry Benadryl and an EpiPen, just in case. Not planning to have someone around me (or myself) have an allergic reaction etc., but "Just in case" is a good reason to carry SOME goodies. I sorta do some math as in "How important is fixing this" vs "How heavy / bulky is the solution for this?" IMO if your brain's telling you to watch out, might be a VERY good idea to listen and act accordingly!

[Omega]

Ok, I'll add my 2¢. I have carried a GLOCK 23, which is a .40, since the mid to late 80's, but have recently added an XD, also a .40, to the rotation. My only wheelgun is a Ruger BH .44 Mag, and a Uberti 36 cal, both of which are too bulky for a CCW. When I got my first CCW permit, I wanted a compact gun, with decent capacity, and decent knockdown power. I looked at a bunch and due to a used (less than 20 rounds)Glock 23 coming into Jim's Pawn Shop in Fayetteville, NC., for less than $400, I jumped on it. While I had seen the Glocks, I wasn't keen on them, but after getting to shoot it, and reload for it, I became comfortable with it.

Over the years, I have never had to draw it, but I am well rehearsed in doing so and can still put rounds where I want to with it. With experience, I've changed my stance on a couple of things, first is reloads; I carry them, I don't worry about what some prosecutor may say about them, second is passthroughs; I used to look for the magic bullet that could drop a bear in it's tracks but miraculously stay inside the body...BS, I now worry about those strays that completely miss. What I have not wavered on, is to make sure I carry a decent amount of bullets, and that the bullet I carry can do it's job. Practicing with your chosen platform, in it's entirety, is more important than choice of caliber or round count IMHO, because you can't stop what you can't hit.

[sawinredneck]

I agree completely with the proficiency aspect, that’s where my friends input carried a lot of water towards cheaper ammo so you’ll shoot it more comes in. Reloading helps, but brass and components pricing also comes in as well. 10mm brass isn’t the easiest to come by and factory ammo is even more scarce.
I’m leaning more and more towards a 9mm, components are plentiful, factory ammo is plentiful and cheap.
I found the Diamondback DB9 and really like the size and idea of it, but I’m too lazy to carry two guns for a “New York reload”, and seven rounds of 9mm just isn’t enough of an upgrade to make me feel warm and fuzzy. I think the SCCY is about as small as I want to go, it, with to mags, would give me 31rds of 9mm. But a little larger gun gives you the same with just carrying one extra mag.
I’m still liking the Glock 19 size, EEA makes a CZ clone, for a decent price that looks interesting to me.
I really need to go look at some guns and quit looking at micro guns.

[Gray Fox]

I think that regarding the issue of overpenetration by a .357 is often due to a hollowpoint not expanding and performing like a lead round nose. Similarly, shooting a .357 or .38 revolver with either lead round nose or semiwadcutter boolits is probably going to result in over penetration, even with a center of mass hit.

about 15 years ago,oOne of the Federal guard contracts for which I provided training specified the weapon as a 4" .38 special revolver loaded with Remington 110 grain +P hollow point ammunition. According to the Federal contract administrator this ammo was specified by some government "expert" to preclude over penetration because most of the contract armed guards were going to be in courtrooms or Social Security Offices. I have no info as to whether this ammo was ever used on duty or if it performed as specified. GF

[TheDoctor]

A miss is the most over penetration you will get, regardless of bullet type. Hence, I carry loads for I consider "worst case". And I pack a lot of them. Probably need to think about carrying more, and or a second gun. Always have at least one extra mag. Whatcha gonna do if your only mag craps the bed on you? Never talked to anyone who was in a gunfight that thought they had too much and too big. Quite the opposite normally.

[bob208]

cut off the head and the body fails. in other words shoot the leader first. that will make the others back off long enough to get away.

[tazman]

cut off the head and the body fails. in other words shoot the leader first. that will make the others back off long enough to get away.

That will work great provided you have time to figure out exactly who that person is.

[bob208]

it is easy generally the little guy with the big mouth. if all else fails take out the biggest and work down. I just want to get to the truck where I have a street sweeper.

[RED BEAR]

sawinredneck 31 rounds is ya going to war. i thought i was going overboard with 5 rounds and 2 speed loaders for 15 rounds. if i carry an auto it could be 15 to 20 rounds with extra clip. and you are right 9 mm is extremely cheap to reload. and the 9mm has been doing the job for over 100 years.

[Mr_Sheesh]

There have been a few cases I've heard of where someone needed a LOT of rounds in a self-defense shooting; Very rare but can happen.

[sawinredneck]

sawinredneck 31 rounds is ya going to war. i thought i was going overboard with 5 rounds and 2 speed loaders for 15 rounds. if i carry an auto it could be 15 to 20 rounds with extra clip. and you are right 9 mm is extremely cheap to reload. and the 9mm has been doing the job for over 100 years.

Well I bypassed the AR-15 when it looked like Hitlary was going to win and went with an AR-10, I figure if I hit someone they aren’t getting up again!
In my MUCH younger, and dumber days, I carried a G19 with spare mag on me, a Cobray M11 with two 35rd mags and a Colt Annaconda in the truck, “just in case”. It’s been a hard journey for me to learn to travel lighter. Many people tell me my middle name is overkill, so please bear that in mind.
I happened across several stellar reviews of the Tarus PT-111 G2, it seemed like a nice fit with a great price. THEN, well, I saw the recall and started refreshing my memories of Tarus from days past. It’s a pity.

[Mr_Sheesh]

You are talking like overkill isn't a good idea, there? Heresy! :P

[uscra112]

Personally, the idea of fighting your way to your rifle is keyboard commando BS.

I think that epithet originated with the late Jeff Cooper, did it not?

[tazman]

I am in the process of getting a Springfield Armory XDM in 9mm. I am getting the full size pistol but smaller versions are available. I am not certain, but I believe the full size mags will fit in the compact versions so they would work as high capacity spare mags. Full size mag capacity is 19 rounds.
Right now Springfield has a promotion where you can get three extra mags and a small range bag free with the purchase of a new pistol.
These pistols shoot extremely well and are pretty much foolproof.
I have one in 45acp and I can't seem to make it have a failure--yet. Give me time and I am sure I can get something in there that won't feed right.
Springfield had a video of one of these in 10mm taking an endurance test of 10,000 rounds over the course of 2 days. All of the shots are on the video. No breakage, no failures, no malfunctions. If this pistol can take 10,000 rounds of 10mm, it can take 9mm or 45acp forever.

[pretzelxx]

At this point you should probably look into training a very high stress situation and trying to calm the situation while having drawn.

Look to do multiple things in extremely close proximity while unloaded to make sure you dont fumble around. Watch some of those close up double tap videos for some interesting techniques I suppose. I eventually want to get one of those laser trainer glocks and practice with my wife as me being an aggressor.

Best of luck.

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