Roll stamp tight spot marlin 1894 44mag

[Remmy4477]

Seems my luck with rifles has been not so good lately.

Picked up a marlin 1894 in 44 mag over the weekend. 99 mfg with the ballard style rifling. 20 inch round barrel.
When looking at it through the muzzle with a bore light the barrel looked good but was a bit dirty. A deal was struck and it came home with me.

Took it apart the other night to clean all the gunk and dirt out of the action, probably never been apart since new. looking down the bore from the action side you can see a few wrinckles about 4 inches in from the breech on the right side of the barrel right under the roll stamps. Slugged the bore, .430-.431 best I can tell, the slug went down the barrel fine till the wrinckles then it took a bit of effort to get past that tight spot. Examining the slug there seems to be no damage due to the wrinkles, the bad spot might be about a 1/4 inch long.

Lots of research seems this is a common problem with the marlin rifles in 44 mag. I see some guys either have accuracy problems with cast boolits or they don't, nothing real definitive either way? The PO said it was a very accurate rifle but did not say what boolits were going down the pipe.
Going to take it out today and see what happens with it. Have some factory stuff, xtp's, and a bit of lead loads.
Hoping it does fine with the lead more than anything. But again my luck lately??

If it shoots good, no worries. If not what are the fixes? I see hand lapping, fire lapping, barrel replacement. Again not seeing much definitive for an answer.
Fire lapping I would be worried about opening up the bore more than I want it!
Barrel replacement, is it really worth the investment for a rifle thats going to be used for cowboy silhouette shoots out to 100 meters?

Wondering??

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Fire lapping will open up the bore only to the diameter of the slug used. I'd do that.

[JoeJames]

"Slugged the bore, .450-451 best I can tell" - 44 mag? Was it more like .430-431?

[Remmy4477]

"Slugged the bore, .450-451 best I can tell" - 44 mag? Was it more like .430-431?

Oops! me bad, will edit!

[longbow]

I got mine back in the 1980's and found it shot "J" bullets reasonably well but wasn't a tack driver. Since I have been a boolit caster since I was 13 (51 years) of course I had to get at least one mould. I looked up .44 mag and the Lyman 429421 was the "very best" Keith style boolit mould one could buy... well, I bought one and cast. They shot... okay but not great and I got leading. They also didn't feed well. Turns out I find that the Lyman 429421 has a longer OAL if crimped in the crimp groove than the Marlin will generally accept ~ the Lyman Cast Bullet Reloading Manual has a warning. Also, my mould cast at 0.429" so undersize for the Marlin bore which runs 0.431" groove diameter per SAAMI.

Those were the first issues.

So I made a fatter mould that made boolits that seated to correct OAL and that improved accuracy and reduced leading so that the gun was quite shootable. Still not as accurate as I would have thought and still got some leading.

Fast forward many years and Mihec is producing moulds that are 0.434" so I buy one. Accuracy is pretty good now but leading remains about the same.

I start reading about Marlin issues on the Marlin owners forum and find:

- Marlins run 0.431" groove diameter per SAAMI so "fat" but not over spec for rifle which is different than for handgun (why?)
- Marlins can be modified by filing the cartridge stop to accept longer OAL rounds (I did that and it worked well)
- Marlins get the dreaded Marlin jam which can be headed off early or repaired after (I had that ~ feeding 2 through)
- Marlins tend to have tight spots under roll stamping ~ slugged my bore carefully and yup! tight spots!
- many Marlin 1894's do not feed SWC's well... mine was one

I decided to hand lap the bore so I could concentrate on the tight spots. Made a lap and muzzle protector then carefully lapped the full length of the barrel in an attempt to remove the tight spots and put a very slight choke in the bore. Not sure if I succeeded in creating a slight choke but did get rid of the tight spots. Accuracy improved again to pretty decent and no leading! So now I had a gun that would feed longer than factory OAL rounds and didn't lead.

I also did some work on the carrier to allow feeding of SWC's and that worked but made the "feeding 2 through" jam worse. Recently I have soldered a piece of hacksaw blade under the carrier to correct the nose height which seems (so far) to have solved the feeding 2 through issue.

On feeding SWC's, that seems to be a "random" issue affecting some guns and not others so maybe something that is within factory tolerances but picky timing? Randy Buchannan has posted that putting a very small radius or chamfer on the chamber mouth will fix that and no other work required. That's is worth trying to begin with if you want to shoot SWC's but your gun doesn't want to feed them. Do a search for Randy's post or PM him for details..

Here is a link to fixing the dreaded Marlin jam if it is or becomes an issue:

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/marlin94fix.html

Here is a link to modification for longer OAL:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-cartridge-OAL

I like my Marlin 1894 but it was kind of a kit gun I had to "fix". Seems to work now though.

Probably more than you wanted to know!

Longbow

[JoeJames]

I got mine back in the 1980's and found it shot "J" bullets reasonably well but wasn't a tack driver. Since I have been a boolit caster since I was 13 (51 years) of course I had to get at least one mould. I looked up .44 mag and the Lyman 429421 was the "very best" Keith style boolit mould one could buy... well, I bought one and cast. They shot... okay but not great and I got leading. They also didn't feed well. Turns out I find that the Lyman 429421 has a longer OAL if crimped in the crimp groove than the Marlin will generally accept ~ the Lyman Cast Bullet Reloading Manual has a warning. Also, my mould cast at 0.429" so undersize for the Marlin bore which runs 0.431" groove diameter per SAAMI.

Those were the first issues.

So I made a fatter mould that made boolits that seated to correct OAL and that improved accuracy and reduced leading so that the gun was quite shootable. Still not as accurate as I would have thought and still got some leading.

Fast forward many years and Mihec is producing moulds that are 0.434" so I buy one. Accuracy is pretty good now but leading remains about the same.

I start reading about Marlin issues on the Marlin owners forum and find:

- Marlins run 0.431" groove diameter per SAAMI so "fat" but not over spec for rifle which is different than for handgun (why?)
- Marlins can be modified by filing the cartridge stop to accept longer OAL rounds (I did that and it worked well)
- Marlins get the dreaded Marlin jam which can be headed off early or repaired after (I had that ~ feeding 2 through)
- Marlins tend to have tight spots under roll stamping ~ slugged my bore carefully and yup! tight spots!
- many Marlin 1894's do not feed SWC's well... mine was one

I decided to hand lap the bore so I could concentrate on the tight spots. Made a lap and muzzle protector then carefully lapped the full length of the barrel in an attempt to remove the tight spots and put a very slight choke in the bore. Not sure if I succeeded in creating a slight choke but did get rid of the tight spots. Accuracy improved again to pretty decent and no leading! So now I had a gun that would feed longer than factory OAL rounds and didn't lead.

I also did some work on the carrier to allow feeding of SWC's and that worked but made the "feeding 2 through" jam worse. Recently I have soldered a piece of hacksaw blade under the carrier to correct the nose height which seems (so far) to have solved the feeding 2 through issue.

On feeding SWC's, that seems to be a "random" issue affecting some guns and not others so maybe something that is within factory tolerances but picky timing? Randy Buchannan has posted that putting a very small radius or chamfer on the chamber mouth will fix that and no other work required. That's is worth trying to begin with if you want to shoot SWC's but your gun doesn't want to feed them. Do a search for Randy's post or PM him for details..

Here is a link to fixing the dreaded Marlin jam if it is or becomes an issue:

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/marlin94fix.html

Here is a link to modification for longer OAL:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-cartridge-OAL

I like my Marlin 1894 but it was kind of a kit gun I had to "fix". Seems to work now though.

Probably more than you wanted to know!

Longbow

No, it was all very interesting to me. I had a Henry Big Boy up until last Saturday. It finally dawned on me that it was also a kit gun that I would have to fix: sights, and trigger, but I realized there was not a thing I could do about the weight: 8.68 pounds. So I put it on consignment at the local gun shop. I also got in some Oregon Trail hard cast .431" 240 grain swc's for it and my Ruger 44's. They were accurate in the Henry, and I reckon they will do ok in the Marlin if I get one. Still studying on whether I wish to take on another project; albeit the Marlin is a bunch lighter.

[dubber123]

Firelapping will remove the tight spots, and by virtue of the way it works puts a taper in the bore. It also works slowly, no need to worry about going too far. Its one of the first things I do with any problem child firearms I saddle myself with.

[Remmy4477]

Finally able to take it out and put it on paper.

Factory and handloaded Jacketed shoot good, 3-4 inch groups at 50 meters.
Cast SWC's at 255 grn and sized at .430 are doing about the same if I do my part.
So believe I will not worry about the wrinkles for now as it should do acceptable for silhouette shoots.

Still looking for a boolit that I can crimp in the case to feed normally in the rifle as intended. Still want to try a bit bigger on the sizing, .431, that might tighten up the groups a bit more.
Thanks for all the input!

[longbow]

Are you looking for mould or to buy cast boolits?

If mould, it would be hard to beat the Ranch Dog design NOE sells:

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...oducts_id=3690

If buying try Beartooth Bullets:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

They have them sized at up to 0.432". I shoot 0.433" to 0.434" in my 1894. SAAMI spec for .44 mag. rifle is 0.431" so you want boolits to be larger than that.

Longbow

[Walks]

The N.O.E TL-432-243-RF is the solution for .44MAG rifles for me.
Mine drops at .433DIA from #2, weight is 240grs as ordered. It drops even bigger cast of LINOTYPE.

It was ordered to fit a friends WIN 94 Trapper in .44MAG, I was truly pleased to find how well it shot in an old pre-safety MARLIN 1894C & a ROSSI .44MAG Carbine, my WIN 1894 20"bbl carbine from BIG 5 likes it too.
It can be crimped in the first lube groove or taper crimped for a shorter O.A.L.

I have a 1894CS .357MAG purchased new in 1989 and a 1894CB 24" bbl in .45COLT from the first batch in 1996.

I have never heard of the "dreaded MARLIN jam, until I read of it earlier this year on this Website.

It maybe the fact that I and my fellow Cowboy Shooter's avoided the "jam" because most of us had action jobs performed within 500-1000 rounds. Some even right out of the box without firing a shot.

But that doesn't explain why my pre-safety 1894C or my 1989 made 1894CS Carbine have never failed. Both have had many 1,000's or rounds fired by my Kids or myself in COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING. Neither has ever been touched by a GUNSMITH except to change the sights.

Maybe I've just been lucky.

[longbow]

I have not heard of the 1894CS .357 mag. having feeding problems with SWC's but would have figured they might suffer from the same peening issue the 1894 does which leads to the "Dreaded Marlin Jam".

Apparently the problem is the sharp edge on the lever snail peening a groove into the bottom of the carrier which, I have to think, throws out timing and/or allows the carrier nose to drop just a bit too far. Possibly older guns didn't have the sharp edge on the lever? On the marauder.homestead site he says that if the sharp edge on the lever snail is radiused just a bit when the gun is new the peening will not happen.

For my gun I think the jam was more due to my working on the carrier to allow feeding of SWC's as there was really a minimal peening groove in the carrier. I kinda lowered the cartridge location and angle on the carrier and likely removed a bit much metal at the nose of the carrier. It fed the SWC's but frequently let two through which became a bit irritating. I believe and hope I have that fixed now!

Had I stuck with RNFP boolit designs I would not have had to make any mod's. So, I made work for myself!

Longbow