lee precision or ...

[EDG]

Lee tends to design with an eye toward innovation. It appears that the object of their innovation is the marketing term of product differentation. Often product differentation is used just to make an otherwise hohum item look a little better in the market place.
So from Lee you get the silly round die boxes that it takes Lee forever to quit using. You get an integral expander that eventually gets redesigned to provide a shorter expander section. You get short die bodies that do not work on some presses. You get plastic drum or plastic chambered powder measures that leak ball powders, bottom pour lead melters that leak, you get a beam balance that that has poor dampening. Then there are the little aluminum presses that break with heavy duty use....

[Omega]

And yet, thousands of new reloaders start with Lee products. Like Lee or not, it does not stop them from being one of the top popular brand.

[Walks]

LEE has some great idea's. But they use very cheap materials.
I used only the Lee decapper for .45acp/.30-06 for most of my life, decapped a lot of G.I. brass that way. When I starting Cowboy Action Shooting with my DAD, He found 3 used LEE 2cav molds at a gunshow. Said the Round Noses were more in line with the style of CAS for our COLT SAA'S in .44spl, only $12 bucks for 3 2cav molds. Molds are still working fine, always treated gently. Lubed well. That was 1988. Old man passed 3 months later, only got to shoot 1 match with the COTO COWBOYS.

Years pass, all the guys that shoot .44-40 rifles as I do are raving about the new LEE Factory CRIMP Die. Greatest thing in the world, best thing for loading .44-40 & .38-40 rifle ammo.
So I bought one, worked like ****. Called LEE, was told I didn't know what I was doing.
I told them I could read. The package said .44-40 & the die was stamped .44mag.
They said that was impossible, but if I gave them a credit card # they would be glad to sell a new die for .44-40 for 20% more then I had paid for the original incorrectly labeled die/package. And $8 s&h.

The way I figure it. Buying cheap is a **** shoot. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[EDG]

If you don't know anything better you have little experience. Therefore price comparison is often the ONLY data people have to go by. After all reloading is a process for economy minded people who are will to put out the effort to recycle empty cases. Therefore the cost cutting green horn is naturally going to pick the cheapest place to start even though it may not be the best solution over the long haul.
Just cruise this site and many others for constant criticism of Lee tools.

And yet, thousands of new reloaders start with Lee products. Like Lee or not, it does not stop them from being one of the top popular brand.

[EDG]

Minute shaver do you reload and have you priced a new current model Corvette?

Theres a car company, Japanese name, not sure if its actually made in japan or not. The cars normally cost 20-30,000 and are ok. They are very popular in some metro areas for spending 20-30,000 in upgrades on to make into street racers. They do ok as street racers.

Except that its been proven in actual independent racing by racing teams that a stock, entry level current production Corvette, mustang, or dodge muscle car actually costs the same or less, and out performs it. Whos a fool for buying either one?

[Traffer]

There is also the potential for someone in the supply chain to have tampered with this die (put a 311 in a 308) or perhaps the language barrier played a part. It is very rare to get completely wrong sizes in packages from Lee. They are actually pretty good. As far as the cost of shipping and handling, I remember buying parts for Fiats back in the '70's when I worked on them. $42 for a zinc seat catch. Equivalent to about $200 now. When I inquired as to why it was so expensive... they said it went through about 6 hands in the supply chain and each person doubled the price.
I like Lee equipment. Haven't had any problems. In fact I broke parts twice...my fault...replaced free of charge.

[airone46]

I realize that almost everyone gives OT answers!
The title of my post is LEE PRECISON OR LEE IMPRECISION?
The word "PRECISION / IMPRECISION" was used by me not in the "mechanical" sense, to say that Lee makes mechanically little precise items!
On the quality of the material and the finishings I NEVER said anything!
In fact I can not claim to have a 2 carat diamond at the price of about € 42! At that price I can only have a ZIRCONE !!!
https://www.gemselect.com/italian/zi...con-377554.php
https://www.gemselect.com/italian/di...ond-382090.php
I HAVE USED THE TERM "PRECISION / IMPRECISION" IN SARCASTIC SENSING, REFERRING EXCLUSIVELY TO THE QUALITY OF THE ASSISTANCE OF LEE!
Sorry if "I cry", but I hope that in this way I can make myself understood!
I summarize the situation:
1) - I already have a sizer Lee .309 (see photo) but I want one .308.
2) - I buy the sizer .308 and I read on the package ".308": I measure the sizer and I see that the diameter is instead .311!
3) - The steps are:
- Lee produces the item and sends it to the importer
- The importer puts OUT a box with an Italian name and price tag. Then send it to the retailer.
- The dealer sells it to me.
- I buy, PAY, and I find myself an object SIMPLY DIFFERENT from the one commissioned!
The retailer says he has no fault and to address the importer; the same says the importer and I refer to the manufacturer LEE: Lee tells me to send the sizer at my expense at the cost of over FOUR times the price of the sizer, and, ONLY if it will be faulty, it will change!

At this point I give the sizer, and the next time my daughter goes to USA, I tell her to bring me an NOE !!!

I think it happened as someone said in this forum: a sizer .311 was placed inside a sizer .308 package! Who did the exchange? Impossible to know!
But if Lee had applied a plate like that of the "30 Luger" sizer on the edge of the package, it would have been impossible to open it without tearing it! So, if you accept an item with a torn label, you also accept the risk of a tampered item!

In all this, Lee has behaved worse than Esau in the passage of the Bible, which sells his first birth to his brother Joseph for a miserable dish of lentils!
For a few dollars he has lost the trust of at least ONE BUYER! For others I do not know! But I think they are intent on thinking like me!

I invite the readers of the post to tell EXCLUSIVELY about their experiences of assistance from Lee, and to say whether it is correct to demand the return of an item with a shipping cost many times above its value.
Please do not write anything, IN THIS POST, on the quality of the Lee items (workmanship and materials), because it would be OT!

Thank you!

[Traffer]

-Dude... do they use the word "Dude" in Italy? I don't want to be a pain to you but, you need to lighten up here man. Your outrage is not appropriate for the situation. A mistake happened...
A mistake for less than one hour's wages. Have yourself one of those very good bottles of Italian wine and consider the good things in life. Take a drive in the mountains, or along the coast... thank God for the quality of life you enjoy. Pray for the people involved in the situation...I guarantee you will feel better.

[mdi]

MDI
Some of us have been reloading longer than you and have been tool users longer than you. I have a lot more time and experience in precision machining -45 years of it. I started reloading before LEE made any tools except whack a moles. I have a lot more equipment than you have and I have had my share of Lee defects. So I don't use Lee products without careful consideration.

Wow! I didn't know you knew me. How much you think you know about me is jes plain old BS. You have no idea about what you are saying about me. Precision machinist? I have made titanium parts that were held to .0005" tolerance. My tools? I only have three Craftsman tool chests (10 drawers) w/top boxes (9 drawers) full of tools (and I gave away and sold a lot when I retired.), plus my 54" roll away I keep for my "everyday tools". Reloading longer (I started in '69)? Possibly, but doing some thing wrong for 40 years way way stupider than doing it right for 10 years. Tool users longer? Possibly, but again if you use tools incorrectly for 50 years it is much worse than using tools correctly for 5 years and means very little.

As I stated earlier, but I'll say it more plainly now; the biggest problems with Lee tools is the club fisted, ignorant use, and the inability to read and understand instructions. Added to this are the tool snobs that think their choice is the only sane choice and everything else is junk. I like Lees innovative designs, and the use of modern materials. Yes there are problems with Lee tools but every tool manufactured by humans can have defects (yes even RCBS. I've had "bad" RCBS dies from the factory, but nothing a few minutes with though and a file couldn't fix).

Please confine your comments to something you know about (or think you know).

[Omega]

OP, in your case, I would have just went and purchased another sizer, locally, and taken a pin guage to confirm what I purchased.

I would be more pissed at the locals than Lee, when I buy something from a retailer, and it's not what I purchased, or broken, I don't go to the manufacturer, I go to the retailer to fix it. They buy in bulk, and can absorb those charges or re-label it a .311 and keep their customer happy.

[Kenstone]

I've read where the OP has added some rules for posting here, so I'm out...
But will leave these questions to contemplate.
Where is the Lee factory label on the red container, did the retailer or importer remove/replace it with their own?
Why is the part # (90038) on the bogus label for 0.309" and the die is 0.311" ?
Why is not the retailer responsible for the wrong label, wrong product when a 0.308"(90038) was requested by the OP.
Why did you accept the retailer and importer's non-responsibility excuse and decide Lee was at fault?
Just asking, no need to answer,

[EDG]

Well after your long recitation of how you can walk on water I think I know you pretty well.
Now you are regaling us with an inventory of all the tools you may have ever owned. Yet you say nothing about your inventory of reloading tools. I have well over 100 different die sets of RCBS, Redding, CH and Bonanza dies. I also own or have owned about 20 sets of LEE dies.
A half thousandth tolerance is a lot compared to plus or minus 50 millionths on air gauged parts.
Titanium? You have to be kidding. In the medical implant business 6AL4V titanium and even tougher ASTM F75 Cobalt Chrome alloys are standard materials. Titanium is also a common material in aerospace and semiconductor industries. I have worked in those industries as a manufacturing engineer after working my way through a university degree. Of those 50 plus years I also traveled to hundreds of the best contract and OEM machine shops in the US, UK, Germany, Canada, Singapore and China....

Yet you know nothing about me. I guarantee that there is always someone who has done more, of a greater variety for more years and greater precision.

PS RCBS FL die bodies are case hardened. A file will not touch them unless you anneal the die.
There are real problems with some items from Lee. You just have not used that many and you chose to blame others without investigating their claims. It is very easy to do a google search of broken Lee press and find photos of the broken little presses that Lee palmed off on a lot of newbies.

Wow! I didn't know you knew me. How much you think you know about me is jes plain old BS. You have no idea about what you are saying about me. Precision machinist? I have made titanium parts that were held to .0005" tolerance. My tools? I only have three Craftsman tool chests (10 drawers) w/top boxes (9 drawers) full of tools (and I gave away and sold a lot when I retired.), plus my 54" roll away I keep for my "everyday tools". Reloading longer (I started in '69)? Possibly, but doing some thing wrong for 40 years way way stupider than doing it right for 10 years. Tool users longer? Possibly, but again if you use tools incorrectly for 50 years it is much worse than using tools correctly for 5 years and means very little.

As I stated earlier, but I'll say it more plainly now; the biggest problems with Lee tools is the club fisted, ignorant use, and the inability to read and understand instructions. Added to this are the tool snobs that think their choice is the only sane choice and everything else is junk. I like Lees innovative designs, and the use of modern materials. Yes there are problems with Lee tools but every tool manufactured by humans can have defects (yes even RCBS. I've had "bad" RCBS dies from the factory, but nothing a few minutes with though and a file couldn't fix).

Please confine your comments to something you know about (or think you know).

9

[ReloaderFred]

This has gone on long enough. Thread locked.