Lee 309-150-F for deer?

[brewer12345]

I bagged a full sized mulie doe last night with a big boolit out of the .30-06 (198 grain lubed and checked with a huge meplat). After skinning, I would say that the boolit was pretty destructive, with lots of blood shot meat around the entry wound. The boolit did not hit any bones (aside from maybe a rib), but there was a ton energy transfer with the big meplat and complete penetration was no surprise (the lead probably would have continued to the next county if not for the hillside behind the doe).

No complaints given that the doe made it less than 25 yards from where she was hit, but I wonder if a smaller slug would do the deed with less meat damage. I cast the Lee 150 flat nose and have an accurate load doing around 2000 FPS courtesy of 25 grains of 2400. Is this enough horsepower for a 100 yard shot on a mulie?

[Dieselhorses]

It's all in the placement (boiler room). I should hope that a 150 will do the job as I have the same mold. I used to use Core lock 165 grain before I got into reloading. Any idea what your hardness is of the rounds you tested? If you don't go too hard (over 16-18 BHN) then expansion will be in your favor.

[brewer12345]

The alloy I use for rifle boolits is typically air cooled COWW plus 2 to 3% tin. 12 or 13 BHN? When I pull the carcass out of the cooler to do some butchering I will look to see if there is evidence of expansion. The big slug blew up the doe's heart, so I don't imagine it would have much mattered what mold I used.

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, the 150 gr bullet will do fine on a deer, even a big mulie, out to 100 yards.....probably even farther.

[Dieselhorses]

The alloy I use for rifle boolits is typically air cooled COWW plus 2 to 3% tin. 12 or 13 BHN? When I pull the carcass out of the cooler to do some butchering I will look to see if there is evidence of expansion. The big slug blew up the doe's heart, so I don't imagine it would have much mattered what mold I used.

I shot a buck like that once, was walking right toward my blind. Before he got too close I sent one. He scurried about 20 yards and dropped.

[Screwbolts]

It is my some what less than humble opinion, that regardless of which boolit you choose, you will need to slow them down to lesson the blood shot meat.

Ken

[popper]

What causes blood shot meat? I've seen several deer & pigs shot with 243 skinned, not much there. The steak she buys has blood in it. She beats the meat to pieces on some cuts to tenderize it. Broken capillaries? Meat has blood in it, fat does not. Does blood make the meat bad or spoil faster? Is it just nasty looking? Now metal fragments I understand.

[brewer12345]

It is my some what less than humble opinion, that regardless of which boolit you choose, you will need to slow them down to lesson the blood shot meat.

Ken

I am increasingly of the same opinion. However, my state requires 1000 foot pounds at 100 yards, which is a bit silly. Lighter boolits have to be driven faster to stay legal.

[Dieselhorses]

All I know is I bleed em out in ice chests for 3 days iced down, never really paid attention to any meat being blood shot. I assume "blood shot" is referring to bruising?

[brewer12345]

Dunno if I would exactly call bloodshot bruising. When I shoot a bunny (cottontail or jackrabbit) I usually let it sit in salted water (teaspoon or two will do in a bowl of water) at least overnight. Bloodshot meat does not allow the blood to leach out even in saltwater.

[GregLaROCHE]

It’s all about velocity. The faster the bullet travels, cast or jacketed, the more damage to the surrounding meat you will have. The ballistic differences between.30-06 and .308 are not that different. Loaded equally a 150gr will go a lot faster and in theory will ruin more meat.

What needs to be taken into account is what range you are shooting. In less than 100yrds, both rounds will easily take down a whitetail with much less than a maximum load. If you are shooting further that’s another story all depending on how far.

I just reread the post. My mistake. I thought it was a 308 win. with a 150gr. Boolit. The popular size for .308. The same holds true. A 150 will go faster and do more damage. I’ve been experimenting with Lee 230gr. in .30-06. Much lower velocity.

[quilbilly]

It is my some what less than humble opinion, that regardless of which boolit you choose, you will need to slow them down to lesson the blood shot meat.

Ken

I absolutely agree. With either the 198 or the 150, a terminal velocity of 1150 fps at whatever your maximum ethical range is will do the job nicely and you can eat up to the hole. That high velocity creates a hydrostatic (I think the right term) pressure wave that destroys the surrounding meat. That 150 gr boolit at an MV of 1550 will do the job nicely out to 130 yards from the results of my terminal ballistics tests (soaked phone books at 40 yards).. You still have to do your part though, by putting the boolit where it counts.

[northmn]

There are all kinds of issues with cast bullets. Velocity is an important one. Alloy is another. "Hard cast" alloy has enough antimony in it to fragment at higher velocities. Slowing down the hard cast will offer les bullet disruption. If slowed down to pistol levels it may just punch a nice bullet diameter hole. Lesson the antimony and you get more malleability which in turn means less fragmentation but then you may need less velocity. The older BP cartridges used tin/lead mixtures at lower velocities and depended a lot on bore diameter at longer range.

Personally with my experience hunting with cast, I would stay with the heavy bullet but maybe slow it down a bit or change the alloy to avoid meat contamination. Heavy bullets hold their velocities so much better down range. A 150 grain bullet has to be driven a lot faster to hit with the same velocity at 100 yards.

The MNDNR did a study on fragmentation effects on meat due to a lead scare a few year ago. They found that one of the least contaminating projectiles was the old pure lead Forster slug. Pure lead is very malleable and resists fragmentation. Tin and lead alloys also resist fragmentation. The addition of antimony increases it. More tin and less antimony in your alloy might help in addition to slowing it down a bit.

I get good accuracy from my 38-55 with 1/2 lead wheel weight alloy, a gas check and Lee Liquid Alox coating at about 1650 chronographed.
I would not be afraid to use it at 100 yards.

DEP

[brewer12345]

I had no evidence of fragmentation with my heavy boolit, but since it did not hit a major bone perhaps it just did not have the chance. My alloy was roughly 94/3/3, so there was a fair bit of tin in it that would help it hold together.

When the group buy for the hollow point 35 rem mold is delivered, I plan to try using 16:1 alloy to get something soft, but that will hold together in 35 rem. I have a low speed limit with that rifle and cast, so harder alloys would not get me more velocity anyway.

[pls1911]

Can't disagree with above comments...
Point it... pull the trigger... it dies.

The 30 cal 150 gr bullet is heavy enough to provide reliable performance with wide latitude concerning hardness and velocity, whatever works best in your gun.
Yep, it's plenty, with proper placement.