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Thread: shotgun powder equivalent \\=\\ measure in pyrodex

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    shotgun powder equivalent \\=\\ measure in pyrodex

    I have a question to all you goroo's I hunt muzzleloaders and was recently givin a keg of shot gun powder . and was thinking that back in the day they converted muzzleloaders to smokeless powder but now they say not to use smokeless powder in your muzzleloader my question is WHY if you get the equivalent measure it be fine. however I don't want to f@%#@ up so I thought I would pick other brains. if the measure of energy is = it should work RIGHT???

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    nicholst55's Avatar
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    They also blew up a lot of guns. Proceed at your own risk, and please don't stand next to anyone else when you test fire your grenade.
    Boycott YouTube

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Boolit_Head's Avatar
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    I may be wrong but i believe it is how the energy is produced. Smokeless produces it's pressure much differently than black powder. That is what may make it not safe for muzzle loaders.
    On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.

    Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold
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    trust me when I say I will not be holding any test fires it will be done remotely
    and yes the energy is produced differently how ever the chamber of a muzzleloader is built reinforced the only thing different is that the shape of a modern bullet is tapered inside the casing I am thinking that a hollow core round might be best but that's a long time from now. now I am just tyring to get the math done before any live fire
    Quote Originally Posted by walker13 View Post
    I have a question to all you goroo's I hunt muzzleloaders and was recently givin a keg of shot gun powder . and was thinking that back in the day they converted muzzleloaders to smokeless powder but now they say not to use smokeless powder in your muzzleloader my question is WHY if you get the equivalent measure it be fine. however I don't want to f@%#@ up so I thought I would pick other brains. if the measure of energy is = it should work RIGHT???

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Muzzle loaders are vented firearms, not a sealed breech like smokeless firearms are. This vent is right in front of your face. Pressures build differently between the 2 powders and may have different "spikes" or waves.

    While some of the breechloading bp firearms have been used with smokeless they are also a closed or sealed breech, even then there is debate if an original from that era should be used with smokeless loads due to metallurgy, steels composition, machining and fatigue.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker13 View Post
    I have a question to all you goroo's I hunt muzzleloaders and was recently givin a keg of shot gun powder . and was thinking that back in the day they converted muzzleloaders to smokeless powder but now they say not to use smokeless powder in your muzzleloader my question is WHY if you get the equivalent measure it be fine. however I don't want to f@%#@ up so I thought I would pick other brains. if the measure of energy is = it should work RIGHT???
    ohhhh man!!! If you put a blackpowder equivalent measure load of smokeless shotgun powder in a muzzle loader ....please ....update your funeral insurance before you pull the trigger - they are gonna have a difficult time finding all the bits of you to put in the body bag.

    where on earth did you get the crazy idea that back in the day they converted muzzle loaders to smokeless powder?? It didnt happen

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    walker13, The following was posted on another forum. The shooter is a prime candidate for a Darwin Award:

    So this "bright fellow" posted this video on YouTube about shooting his 1858 Remington repro from Pietta using Hodgdon Clays smokeless powder.

    Note: He thinks .44 special data shooting a .429 165gr conical bullet is "close" to his shooting a .451 138gr round ball, and he eyeballs the amount of powder using 2/3 of a half-teaspoon measure!

    He survives and does not blow off his fingers, because he got lucky and chose a very low pressure powder favored by Cowboy Action Shooters, and by using a .451 round ball, the bullet has a lot less friction against the chamber walls in the cylinder, so he unwittingly constructed an obviously (since he doesn't blow up) low pressure load.

    However, if he or some other person who happened to see the video and want to try this, accidentally loads a mere 1 grain more, they are maxed out on powder, AND if the loader gets distracted and dumps two loads (assuming he's really using 3.6 grains of Clays), that would be 7.2 gains of Clays and would FAR exceed recommended loads in the Hodgdon manual for a modern handgun, let alone the Pietta copy of the 1858 Remington.., so a good chance at BOOOOOOM!

    Smokeless Powder in 1858 Remington


    Btw, the "Smokeless Powder in 1858 Remington" is a You Tube video and is an accident waiting to happen. Don't be the next victim!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Loading smokeless powder in a blackpowder weapon is a WAY below average idea. Don't do it! Gp

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    lets get this straight guys nowhere did I say I was going to do this with out researching all aspects of it , that being said it sounds as though I did not make my self clear when I said (EQUIVILANT) USEING THE 1858 ARMY ONLY AS AN EXAMPLE USEING BP THE REQUIRES .23-.35 GRAMS PYRODEX, THE EQUIVILANT IN SMOKELESS MIGHT ONLY .05 -.10 (JUST PUTING NUMBERS UP !
    Only a real DA would try .23-.35 gram smokeless in a pistol not even in a modern day round I don't reload any thing but I cant imagine that much powder in a pistol AND AGAIN THIS IS ONLY A BRAIN STORMING THEORY !!!!!!!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker13 View Post
    lets get this straight guys nowhere did I say I was going to do this with out researching all aspects of it , that being said it sounds as though I did not make my self clear when I said (EQUIVILANT) USEING THE 1858 ARMY ONLY AS AN EXAMPLE USEING BP THE REQUIRES .23-.35 GRAMS PYRODEX, THE EQUIVILANT IN SMOKELESS MIGHT ONLY .05 -.10 (JUST PUTING NUMBERS UP !
    Only a real DA would try .23-.35 gram smokeless in a pistol not even in a modern day round I don't reload any thing but I cant imagine that much powder in a pistol AND AGAIN THIS IS ONLY A BRAIN STORMING THEORY !!!!!!!
    If you research even a few aspects of it - you wont even think about doing it - you should have figured that out way before now

    If you blow yourself up thats ok - evolution working as it should - trouble is its likely you take out a couple of innocent bystanders when you go

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    You men are being trolled.
    Chill Wills

  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
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    you know guys I thought I would have got more results than this all I see here are a bunch of guys that believe differently than I do I am only thinking and if I have to redesign a weapon just for this idea that's my goal but the original question still has not been answered what is the ratio or equivalent by energy not grain there must be an equation to figure it out not that it would be possible but what if it were, I have an engineer friend that says " if you can figure out the math you MIGHT be able figure out the problem however not all questions have answer" so that's the primus for my thinking on this issue you all think I am just a dumb *** however that's the surprise I am really an truly a guy that asks questions that no one else want to ask and I work on finding the answer might take me a life time and so be it at least I did the math , asked the questions , and above all kept the faith,

    measure of propellant = ________energy \\\\\\\\\\\ measure of smokeless = _________energy at what compression is the energy of the 2 = ?

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold
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    have any of you ever tested what you are all telling me or are you just repeating what the general census is ???

  14. #14
    Boolit Master



    wgr's Avatar
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    why not just trade the smokless for black and not worry just shoot and be happy

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