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Thread: dacron, cream of wheat, etc

  1. #1

    dacron, cream of wheat, etc

    Some of my older manuals speak of using random things as a filler on lead bullets that would also eliminate the need for a gas check as they keep the gas off the bullet base.
    I have also since read that using cornmeal and whatnot can cause ringing, which I understood as a chamber bulge forming because the cornmeal compresses before it starts to move the bullet and pressure jumps and causes a bulge. (If that is not correct please let me know.)

    As I intend to soon start loading low-powered LC 308 rounds, I would like to find some sort of filler that would not risk degrading my firearm.
    The idea of needing to point the muzzle up so that the powder falls to the back of the case is incredibly unappealing to me.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    Plenty to read & ponder here, NH:

    The proper use of fillers
    castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The...use...fillers

    Mar 8, 2011 ... I have for many, many years found dacron (polyester fill) to be the best "filler". I use a filler only when appropriate. Many think I always use a ...
    How much Dacron filler to use?
    castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109541...Dacron-filler...
    Mar 10, 2011 ... So, I weighed 15 gr of Dacron today, and it is A LOT! So, my questions are: 1. When you load with Dacron as a filler, how tightly do you pack the ...

    Problem with dacron filler
    castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?319443...dacron-filler
    Oct 31, 2016 ... I read on here where using a dacron filler would tighten up my group and reduce std. dev.. I loaded up 10 rounds using my load and a piece of ...

    Dacron Filler and Chamber Ringing
    castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?352590-Dacron-Filler...
    Jan 18, 2018 ... As I read about dacron fillers I am seeing the general consensus is to leave the dacron fluffy and not push it down against the powder as that ...

    Dacron "filler" or "wad"
    castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?133123-Dacron...filler...
    Nov 12, 2011 ... Dacron "filler" or "wad". I'm reading a lot of posts in my search to find out what I would like to know about fillers and wads. I've been loading ...

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

    glockky's Avatar
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    Here is a good read on the subject. https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.p...-subjects.186/
    Ill keep my guns money and freedom you keep the CHANGE!!!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    filler is used to take up the empty space in a case
    when you use a small charge of fast powder is used
    in a rifle case.I would not not use a gas check if the
    bullet is supposed to have one your accuracy may suffer
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Be carful with COW..it can and will under compression form a solid plug in case..as I found out with ctgs. loaded for only a couple of weeks. Another problem with it is if using "turned" cases for example, those offered by RCM (Rocky Mountain Ctg.). These very high quality cases are turned from solid brass..I was using COW as a filler for reduced black powder loads (Swiss 3FG) in a Ballard chambered for the Stevens .25-25..even though case neck I.D. appeared smooth..tiny machining marks must have gripped compressed COW & stretched cases..some as much as .100"! I had the neck pulled off 1 case.
    I now use only Puff-Lon ballistic filler...never had any problems since.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    loading low-powered LC 308 rounds How low do you want to go, what weight boolit? H4895 has youth loads listed. Most any pistol powder will work. Filler ( I use dog toy dacron) will work. Idea is to position powder (position sensitive) and decrease case volume so powder burns efficiently. Granular fillers can form a plug in bottleneck cases. Filler is not a GC replacement! You can shoot GC sans GC and get decent results at low pressure/fps.
    Whatever!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    loading low-powered LC 308 rounds How low do you want to go, what weight boolit? H4895 has youth loads listed. Most any pistol powder will work. Filler ( I use dog toy dacron) will work. Idea is to position powder (position sensitive) and decrease case volume so powder burns efficiently. Granular fillers can form a plug in bottleneck cases. ... .
    I have 150gr both cast and plated, not so sure how the plated will work, but I'll try anyway.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by .22-10-45 View Post
    Be carful with COW..it can and will under compression form a solid plug in case..as I found out with ctgs. loaded for only a couple of weeks. Another problem with it is if using "turned" cases for example, those offered by RCM (Rocky Mountain Ctg.). These very high quality cases are turned from solid brass..I was using COW as a filler for reduced black powder loads (Swiss 3FG) in a Ballard chambered for the Stevens .25-25..even though case neck I.D. appeared smooth..tiny machining marks must have gripped compressed COW & stretched cases..some as much as .100"! I had the neck pulled off 1 case.
    I now use only Puff-Lon ballistic filler...never had any problems since.
    That was one of the things I had heard and concerned my, so I am here looking for the safest alternative.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    I am with popper. Currently enjoying shooting cast in my Savage. Using Red Dot, AA5744, H4895,H335 and SR4759 have been able to get down in the 1300fps range without any trouble and without fillers. Using gas checked bullets of weights from 150grs to 200grs. Almost all data was gleaned from this forums and other websites including Hodgdon Powder Co and LEE Reloading Book. Accuracy has been very good although I have only been shooting 50yds. Breaking in new barrel and trying to to find the most accurate load but to the credit of my Savage, most all loads tried have offered more than sufficient accuracy with very light recoil.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I have loaded Pyrodex in 44-40 and found a recommended 20 Grain weight charge left an air space between top of Propellant and bottom of seated bullet; so I used a dry .45 Cal Wad/disk over the Propellant to hole it next to the flash hole.

    The .45 Cal wad fit with friction inside the 44-40 case and has worked as planned for over 200 rounds fired to date.

    Side note: I find clean up after shooting Pyrodex is about as bad as shooting Black Powder as my Iver Johnson 'Cattleman' Single action Revolver take s three consecutive days of cleaning to get all the fouling out of the action. If left in the revolver, things start to corrode.
    Chev. William

  12. #12
    Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanHoln View Post
    That was one of the things I had heard and concerned my, so I am here looking for the safest alternative.
    try dacron, i do with the 444 marlin and 45-70 and 30-40 krag. just a tuft of dacron.

  13. #13
    What is the easiest way to find/identify dacrum? I don't do much in upholstery, but I hear it's in pillows and couches and stuff. Can it be pulled out of any random thingy and burnt or something to identify?
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

  14. #14
    Moderator

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    You can buy new Dacron batting to make a quilt or the like out of, any fabric store, pretty cheap. Like https://www.joann.com/comfortloft-10...w/2745107.html or https://www.walmart.com/ip/Poly-Fil-...z-Bag/17808686 etc.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Well, as usual a controversial subject!

    I am one who uses COW regularly for my .303 British loads. Never had a problem... but worked loads up using COW from the start. Initially I used plain old COW based on info I found here:

    http://www.303british.com/id37.html

    and by contacting David Southall directly. He was very helpful and reiterated what is in his article with more detail.

    I tried COW based on his information and had immediate improvement in accuracy and overall performance of my cast boolit loads. My reasons for using fillers:

    - I have quite a few slow powders for "J" bullet loading and not particularly suited to cast boolit loading, so wanted to use them up effectively and safely. That seems to work just fine. Also, don't forget that light loading with slow powders can result in SEE events.
    - granular filler provide 100% load density so no chance of double charge with light loads
    - granular filler "might" replace gas check for PB boolits. Yes and no.
    - I had used .410 fiber wads in my .45-70 over smokeless loads for many thousands of rounds without incident and with improved performance many years ago. In this case the wads filled the empty space.

    Subsequently I had found several articles on safe use of granular fillers (COW and shotgun buffer mostly) for cast boolit loading so felt "safe" in approaching this and using fillers. One in particular was about using COW + graphite for filler. While I had experienced no problems with plain COW, adding graphite seemed like a good idea... less clumping when compressed and lubrication so better flow.

    So, let's talk about clumping and forming a solid mass. Yes, COW does compress and form a "solid" mass. However, in my experience that doesn't change over time or with changes in humidity, etc. I loaded up 25 rounds with plain COW (no graphite) then put 5 in an open baggie and left it outside for 10 months. The baggie was put out in late fall and left open, under a big tree, through the winter rain and snow, left until the following fall (10 months) then impatience got the best of me so I got them inside and pulled a bullet. Yup, the COW was compressed and fairly solid. I then pulled a bullet from one of the remaining rounds that was stored in a heated basement. The COW appeared to be identically compressed! In both cases a nail easily dug out a crumbly COW filler. Subjective... yes, but there were no obvious differences in the fillers.

    I reseated those boolits and went to the range to shoot all the rounds. I could not tell any difference in performance or accuracy between those stored outside exposed to the elements or those stored inside a heated basement. So, contrary to what is often said the COW didn't apparently change into a solid gun damaging plug when left loaded for 10 months nor did it when left outside for 10 months.

    Putting it in perspective, I am betting the pressure required to extrude COW is less than that to extrude lead... which we do regularly when shooting cast boolits ~ that boolit is an oversize "plug".

    As for 100% loading density, yes, you do have to take filler weight into account and reduced case volume as pressure will increase due to both. Since when has pressure been a bad thing? Too much pressure is a bad thing and so is too little pressure.

    A significant upside to 100% loading density using filler with reduced loads is that it is impossible to double charge and not know it. I have read several accounts of guns blowing up using reduced charges of pistol or shotgun powder but the reloader swears they didn't double charge, Did they or not? Could that reloader have made a mistake? Have you never made a mistake?

    I have read of more "incidents" from improper use of Dacron or other fluffy fillers than I have from granular fillers.

    If you decide to use fillers (granular or fluffy) or not, make an educated decision, and don't assume you can simply add granular or fluffy filler to an already developed or book load! That is a recipe for disaster. You have to work up loads using the filler or use proven load data with filler included (like Larry Gibson's info or Starmetal's info).

    Also, a couple of things have been said about granular fillers improving performance and replacing gas checks that is not true in my experience:

    - fillers allow loading to gas check velocities with PB boolits
    - granular fillers will keep an unlubricated boolit from leading

    I have seen improved performance, better accuracy and higher than typical PB boolit velocities using COW in my .303's but so far max. velocities are lower than GC boolit velocities when accuracy goes South. So, in my experience, filler is not a total replacement for GC's.

    As for the unlubricated boolit not leading with COW filler... WRONG! I tried it and got severe leading after just a few rounds so it certainly didn't work for me with ACWW. Maybe with a different alloy? Lighter charge?

    Most of what I say above is opinion only and you are free to disagree. I am not trying to convince you to use fillers, just that I don't believe they are the evil they are often made out to be.

    I have nothing against Dacron or fluffy filler, I have not used it so no experience but I trust Larry Gibson and will follow his advice when I do try Dacron. Since there seems to be more known about Dacron filler it is the better choice if you decide to try a filler. Larry has posted lots of good info on its use.

    Again I believe fillers have their place and can be used safely if used appropriately.

    YMMV

    Longbow

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check