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Thread: Old double barrel question...

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    If you MUST shoot it, buy 20 gauge inserts from Briley and epoxy or SuperLoktite them in. Shooting an old blackpowder shotgun with modern ammo is reckless behavior at best. My .02; your face...

  2. #42
    Boolit Bub
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    Even some full length insert barrels would be great, but defeats the purpose of buying a cheap gun to start with.
    I've used 20ga inserts and they do surprisingly well pattern wise if the gun has any kind of choke, the ones I've got are steel and that has to increase the strength of the chamber.

  3. #43
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    skeettx's Avatar
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    If you are going to shoot it, use these:
    http://www.rstshells.com/store/m/2-12-Gauge.aspx
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  4. #44
    Boolit Grand Master

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    First a LOT of those were cut with 2 1/2" chambers and ANY 2 3/4 load is a danger. Second it needs to be checked by a competent gunsmith to see if it is Damascus faux Damascus or just tubing. If it is 2 3/4 which I doubt, and if it has good solid steel bores then and only then you can shoot modern shells in it. Be aware the gun will shoot loose quickly with modern loads. As few as 10 boxes and it will be off face. They were made of softer steel and were realy designed and made for B/P pressures and pressure curve.

    These are the guns I shoot all the time with proper loads you just have to respect their limitations.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
    Newtire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCSO View Post
    First a LOT of those were cut with 2 1/2" chambers and ANY 2 3/4 load is a danger. Second it needs to be checked by a competent gunsmith to see if it is Damascus faux Damascus or just tubing. If it is 2 3/4 which I doubt, and if it has good solid steel bores then and only then you can shoot modern shells in it. Be aware the gun will shoot loose quickly with modern loads. As few as 10 boxes and it will be off face. They were made of softer steel and were realy designed and made for B/P pressures and pressure curve.

    These are the guns I shoot all the time with proper loads you just have to respect their limitations.
    Some very good points. I made a chamber-checker by putting a cut off 20 gauge hull inside of a 12 gauge shell and stuck it in the chamber. When the rim of the 20 gauge hits the end of the chamber, it will telescope inwards and that's the maximum length shell you should shoot. I use a little cutoff saw blade from a dremel set in my drill press to trim the shells down. The shooting loose part was something I never really gave much thought to but I believe it now-makes sense.. After reading the articles I mentioned, I wasn't too worried about shooting shells loaded to low pressure specs. blowing up the barrels. The guy who wrote those articles did pressure testing on the loads. Interesting to note that roll crimping gave less pressure than star crimping and primers made a huge difference. Winchester primers were on the mild side and Federals gave much higher pressures. Still, you are on your own when you fool around with this stuff.

  6. #46
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newtire View Post
    Some very good points. I made a chamber-checker by putting a cut off 20 gauge hull inside of a 12 gauge shell and stuck it in the chamber. When the rim of the 20 gauge hits the end of the chamber, it will telescope inwards and that's the maximum length shell you should shoot. I use a little cutoff saw blade from a dremel set in my drill press to trim the shells down. The shooting loose part was something I never really gave much thought to but I believe it now-makes sense.. After reading the articles I mentioned, I wasn't too worried about shooting shells loaded to low pressure specs. blowing up the barrels. The guy who wrote those articles did pressure testing on the loads. Interesting to note that roll crimping gave less pressure than star crimping and primers made a huge difference. Winchester primers were on the mild side and Federals gave much higher pressures. Still, you are on your own when you fool around with this stuff.
    I made a chamebr tool just like that also awhile ago. It works kinda good.

    Do you think I could reload plastic modern shells with BP? I have alot of low brass federal. Id just cut the crimp, add a shot card, and roll crimp. Is there a possibility that they could melt?

  7. #47
    Boolit Buddy
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    Yes, you can, and yes, they may melt some. But it is done, however, it is a little more complex than just what you stated. You need an over powder card, a fiber cushion wad, and an over shot card, at minimum

  8. #48
    Boolit Buddy Markopolo's Avatar
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    I would just love to find a good ole 12g side by side in my neck of the woods. Just ainít available here. If I had one, I would load these...Click image for larger version. 

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    RCBS makes a 12g die set and shell holder that works in a rock chucker for resizing and such.. pretty easy to reload them by volume with a BP substitute or holy black. The simple rule to follow is equal measure of BP to shot by volume. BPI and others make fiber wads for 11g to use the brass shells, and as long as you donít go crimp crazy, the brass shells will last over 20 reloads. If you canít get the old brass shells, CBC sells them by the box of 20.. reasonable price considering how many times you can reload them. I do recommend annealing the brass ones. I use them with single shot 12G and 410, and they are a blast to shoot, easy to load, and a read head turner at a crowded range, not that I have a range within 100 miles here... itís a real fun project, and perfect for that gun once itís deemed safe to shoot... your gun will like it too..

    Marko
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  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    My 2Ę.
    High or low brass has nothing to do with shotshell pressure. High brass was more of an importance when hulls were paper. Smokeless powder has and always will have MUCH more pressure than black powder. I see no nitro proof markings in your pictures so you better stay with black. Also, shooting 2-3/4 shells in 2-1/2 chambers will drastically increase chamber pressure due to constriction of the folded crimp opening into the forcing cone instead of before it.
    If it were mine (and i have one similar) I would use roll crimped hulls with very light loads and black powder (roll crimps produce less pressure) or use brass hulls with black powder.
    Life is so much better with dogs!

  10. #50
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labradigger1 View Post
    My 2Ę.
    High or low brass has nothing to do with shotshell pressure. High brass was more of an importance when hulls were paper. Smokeless powder has and always will have MUCH more pressure than black powder. I see no nitro proof markings in your pictures so you better stay with black. Also, shooting 2-3/4 shells in 2-1/2 chambers will drastically increase chamber pressure due to constriction of the folded crimp opening into the forcing cone instead of before it.
    If it were mine (and i have one similar) I would use roll crimped hulls with very light loads and black powder (roll crimps produce less pressure) or use brass hulls with black powder.
    I cut the crimp off some Winchester and federal 2 3/4 shells. Took the powder out and slapped some Pyrodex in there. Cut the middle part out of the wads. They have a "spring" type piece inbetween of the over powder wad and shot cup. So I cut that out and it fits in perfectly with the load. I put an over shot card and roll crimped.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check