Does anyone have a Lyman Sabot Slug they can send me?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Trying to figure out the correct size for these Slugs. the Lyman site says they are .681 I need to get one and take some measurements with different wads to see if that is the correct size of is a smaller size would be better.

PM me if you can help me out.

Randy

[Hogtamer]

Randy, I posted this for a guy some time back. While I didn't measure the slugs the wads mentioned are a perfect fit and this is a proven killer load. I certainly can measure several for you. These are from the 2 cavity Mihec brass mold bought in a group buy early last year. I tried a bunch of different components in a 3" hull too, but this was the winner.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...5-for-Boomer81
This one was about 100 yds crossing an old swamp road.
Attachment 228652
This was running about 75 yds across a similar road. Didn't get on him until he was already in some tall grass just after he crossed right at dark.
Attachment 228653

[W.R.Buchanan]

I need to have the measurement at the top ring and the bottom of the skirt.

Lyman says .681,,, Miha won't answer so I need your measurements.

I wanted one of those moulds but he hasn't got any left.

Randy

[Ford SD]

I need to have the measurement at the top ring and the bottom of the skirt.

Lyman says .681,,, Miha won't answer so I need your measurements.

I wanted one of those moulds but he hasn't got any left.

Randy

I have a couple I cast of of soft lead, nose .681-683..... base 668+- (cast with the lyman mould)

Have used the data in the lyman book /wsf/ aa hulls with winchester wads and clay buster wads
(last ones I loaded grey hulls to separate them from my trap loads)

rem 870 IC bore and they will push through the barrel with a cleaning rod with just a little more push at the choke (wad and slug)

[longbow]

Randy:

This was posted here some time ago by turbo1889 IIRC:



Looks like the Lyman has similar taper to the Lee which I still say is too much! But what do I know?

It would be good to mic a slug or two as well, just to be sure, as cast isn't always what it is supposed to be.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

The drawing was exactly what I needed. This slug was designed to work with WAA 12 wads perfectly.

The "A" dimension is .680 which since it is at the mouth of the wad where the petals are thinner it yields a total of .730-.735

The "F" dimension shows .666 which is then located near the bottom of shot cup which again yields a measurement of .730-.735.

The "E" dimension shows .644 which is located at the bottom of the slug and base of the shot cup is like that to avoid the radius in the bottom of the shot cup and transition to the petals.

The taper from big in the front to smaller at the base is there to compensate for the taper of the Petals in the wad and yield a close to completely cylindrical projectile with the slug and wad together as it travels down the barrel..

This slug is actually thought out pretty well. Amazing what a good drawing will do for you!

Thanks LB!

Ford: Those measurements agree with the chart above, and I would be loading them in my older Silver AA hulls as well that have been loaded 6-8 times are are ready to be ejected into the oblivion of the 3 gun field. Nobody picks up much of anything off that field, and these dead hulls will find lots of company.

These slugs cast from WW material should weigh @500 gr which is 9 gr more than 1 1/8 oz. or nothing to worry about. They will go in my Standard Trap Load just like my Pumpkin Balls do. Same load for #8's, Buck, or Ball and now Slugs. All of these payloads are leaving at around 1100 FPS so there is no more penalty to pay beyond what a regular trap load is. I could theoretically shoot 250 in one day and feel no worse than shooting a day of Trap. (although my Trap gun is 9.5 lbs adn the M500 is more like 7 lbs.)

Randy

[longbow]

You are welcome Randy.

I'll have to re-mic my wads to check that. Ya, ya I should know... I've said several times that the Lee slugs have too much taper and I am sure they do but looking at the Lyman measurements, I think they are the same or very close except the Lee 1 oz. is somewhat shorter. The Lee 7/8 oz. is considerably shorter. It seems to me that my Lee 1 oz. slug is 0.685" at the widest below the nose radius and runs around 0.665" at the base. I will double check that tomorrow.

I am using Winchester wads but find the slugs seem to be a bit loose at the base implying that the slug is a bit small at the base. I made a sizer to remove the taper then paper patch back to snug fit in the wads and get far better accuracy with the straight cylindrical slug. Go figure.

While I haven't shot the Lyman sabot slug I have found a few on the range or in the berm and all have been soft lead which has shortened and fattened the skirt considerably. The bottom of the skirt is totally cylindrical unlike the tapered casting. I am thinking that Lyman did that so the bottom edge of the skirt wouldn't tend to shear petals when the skirt expands. This is a problem I have had with some slugs from home made moulds if wads push into the HB cavity and swell the skirt.

I am also wondering if the intent is that the soft lead does shorten and swell out to bore dimension for custom fit. Shotgun bore tolerances being what they are. As long as the obturation is consistent and even every time then it shouldn't matter and should provide a good fit to bore.

Ideally the slug taper should match petal taper within a thou or two.

Kinda thinking out loud here.

I should break down and buy a Lyman sabot slug mould too. I was going to get in on the first Mihec Lyman clone run but turbo talked me out of it. He said my slugs from home made moulds should shoot as well as the Lyman. They do better than most slugs I've tried but I haven't tried the Lyman sabot slug.

Longbow

[longbow]

Okay then, I measured both 7/8 oz. and 1 oz. and they are about what I remember:

1 oz.

- 0.685" at the nose and very round
- 0.667" at the base and again not much variance around
- 0.632" long

7/8 oz.

- 0.685" to 0.689" so somewhat oval at the nose
- 0.665" to 0.667" at the base
- 0.544" long

I checked a winchester yellow wad which I think is up to 1 1/4 oz. Petals were very even 0.020" at the tips and 0.026" to 0.028" at the bottom so about 0.006" to 0.008" taper.

The slugs are running more like 0.009" to 0.010" in a much shorter length.

So if I set the 1 oz. slug on 3 nitro card wads the largest diameter is right at the top of the petals so 0.685 + 2 x 0.020" = 0.725" so small especially in my 0.733" bore.

It'll be even worse at the base 0.667" + 2 x 0.024" = 0.715" so really small.

That's why I took to sizing down the paper patching back up to snug fit.

The Lyman slug is longer by quite a bit so not so severely tapered even though nose and base are about the same diameters as the Lee.

i'll have to dig around to see if I have any shorter Winchester wads. I do have some 1 oz. Claybusters but they are really thin. My Lee slugs drop through the barrel in them.

I still think Brenneke has the right idea ~ make them big with ribs on them so they crush to fit any normal range bore diameter.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB: my Claybuster wads which are direct copy of WAA12 wads measure .035-.038 at the base of the petal and .025-.028 at the top.

So .070 +.666 =.736 at the bottom and .056 +.680 = .736 also so it should work. Obviously this is going to be around +/-.005 on either dimension but at 10,000 psi it is still going thru the hole.

On another note: I just received my Ammo for my Class yesterday. I can't use reloads at Front Sight so I had to buy new stuff. I got this stuff from Target sports in CT and the prices were astoundingly low. $3.50 a box for Slugs and $3.29 a box for the Buckshot, or less than .70 a shot! I got 250 rounds of Federal 000 Buck at 1145 FPS and 150 rounds of Federal Hydra Shok 1 oz slugs at 1300 fps.

When I first picked up one of the rounds it didn't feel right in my hand as I have been handling my dummy rounds I practice with quite a lot lately. Both of these shells are only 2 1/4" long or 60MM Even though they clearly say 2 3/4"/70MM on the hulls themselves.

I guess since they are "Low Recoil" they reduce the length of the hulls to get the crimps to close right with less powder. Although the slugs are Roll Crimped. Don't know about that but they run just fine, so no problems. You'll note that the bases are in between low base and high base, kind of a "mid base." see pics.

I also got 3 100 round boxes of Federal #8's for $21.75 a box at Walmart That's .22 cents a round ! I can't even reload for that!

Randy

[longbow]

Randy those Claybusters are way thicker than my Winchester or 1 oz. Claybuster wads! I'll have to double check the few Pacific Verelite wads I have left. They are much thicker than the Winchester wads as are my old Win AA Reds but they have not performed well for me with slugs at all. The Pacific Verelite wads on the other hand work very well with a variety of slugs. Thicker squishy petals maybe? One of life's mysteries... or slug shooting mysteries anyway.

That's the main reason I like bore diameter slugs except shotgun bore specs are so loose all a guy can do is make then large and let them swage down or make them fit your specific gun. I do like the Mihec Lyman clone that is bore diameter. I haven't seen any reports on performance though. Should be as accurate as the wad slug at least.

On a slightly different topic, I bored out my super tight screw in choke tube and am ready to start rifling. I bored it to 0.705" and plan to rifle with grooves 0.010" deep or maybe a little more shooting for 0.725"+ groove diameter. It is shorter than I would like but much easier than making my own from scratch so I'll give it a try.

Not sure how wad slugs will work but the intent is for bore diameter RB's (0.735") or HB slugs.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Is that choke tube for a Cutts Compensator? I forgot exactly what you were doing. I think it will work great but like anything else new it will take some experimentation to figure out. Shows promise though.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

I was originally going to make my own barrel adaptor, muzzle brake and choke tube based on the old Power-Pac system. It is quite "beefy" with big shoulders and large threads on the choke tubes. However, it is a lot of work and Power-Pac parts are no longer made... still available used and there are some around but I decided it would be quicker and easier to just buy a silver solder barrel adaptor from Brownells and factory screw in choke tubes so I don't have to make them all.

I picked up an IC choke tube for general smoothbore shooting and a gunsmithing blank choke tube for boring and rifling. These are Winchester thread.

My fear now is that the tube appears to be fairly hard so it may take me a while to rifle! Once set up in the machine (manually operated though) it is fairly easy going, just slow. Also, I had planned to make a 4" long rifled tube but this gunsmithng blank will only give maybe 2" of rifling. With the slow twist I doubt I will have problems with stripping in the rifling. If it doesn't work... well, I tried!

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB on a typical Rifling machine the cutter takes a tenth .0001 per pass. A barrel with .004 deep rifling will take 40 passes per groove.

Most Aftermarket Choke tubes are made from 17-4 SS and generally it is heat treated to H1000 specs of around 42-45 Rc.

That material still cuts just fine but it will wear High Speed tooling fairly fast. If your grooves are .005 deep on a side it will take you 50 passes per groove. But since your grooves are only 4" long that shouldn't be the end of the world.

Sometimes we have to work a little harder to get what we want.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

My rifling cutter is the edge of a file epoxied into a wood "rifling head" (a piece of dowel) cut almost in half longitudinally. I have another piece of dowel cut to match that acts as a shoe that can be shimmed to provide cutting pressure. Very similar in style to the old wooden rifling benches. My worm is a twisted piece of square bar with a wheelweight bearing cast around it. It all works pretty well but as you note, it is slow going. For 0.010" deep rifling it'll take at least 100 strokes per groove and I'll likely have to replace the cutter part way through maybe two or three times. I stroke until the cutter slides freely and isn't taking noticeable cuts then index to the next groove. Do that all they way around, add a shim between shoe and cutter head then repeat.

My grooves were intended to be about 4" long but will likely be less than 3" long with this factory tube. It's pretty short!

I am sure i'll be working "a little harder" than I want to. If it works it will be worth it though and if not I learned something so not a waste of time.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Just FYI the NOE Lyman Slug Moulds were made using the dimensions from the chart on this thread provided by Longbow. If you look at the finished weight of them per the chart the smaller gauges get pretty small with 20 ga being 300-320 gr and 28 ga being 200 gr.

10 ga is however pretty impressive at @600 gr!

Randy

[6pt-sika]

Just FYI the NOE Lyman Slug Moulds were made using the dimensions from the chart on this thread provided by Longbow. If you look at the finished weight of them per the chart the smaller gauges get pretty small with 20 ga being 300-320 gr and 28 ga being 200 gr.

10 ga is however pretty impressive at @600 gr!

Randy

I have two 10 gauge slug molds . The one mentioned above that’s a Rooskie copy/adaptation of the Lyman 525 for a 10 gauge that one with 50/50 WW/Pure is about 640 grains the other mold I got from BB and it drops at about 730 grains . The 640 grainer fits nicely inside a Remington SP-10 was and shoots decent from my doubles and its killed deer as of last season . The 730 grainer requires me to remove the petals from an SP-10 was and put a .010” Mylar wrap on the slug and yes it does fairly well on paper and at the loan deer It was fired at last season . This season I have a new to me circa 1891 Parker EH 10 gauge with factory 28” barrels and choked from the factory cylinder and very light modified , this one does lovely with 0000 Buck in the right barrel and the 640 grainer in the left barrel .

[6pt-sika]

I’ve got the Rooskie adaptation for the 16 gauge and that one drops approx 350 grains and it does very well on paper in a circa 1911 Parker GH I have already used handloaded #1 Buck in that one to thrash a deer a couple years back . This one handles the slug very well in both barrels out to 50 or so yards . POI between the right and left at 50 yards is about 3-4” apart however 3 from the right make a small cluster and three from the left make another small cluster all plenty fine for deer although I doubt if I ever try one much pat 35 yards unless on a deer drive . FWIW my Lyman 20 gauge sabot slug drops right around 350 grains with my alloy also . And it’s shot well in a 1928 Parker VHE and a Fox Sterlingworth of pre 1930 vintage . Both those guns are choked modified / full .