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Thread: Slug accuracy thoughts

  1. #1
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Slug accuracy thoughts

    After launching several hundred 260g LWNPB slugs with my 410 +P+ Marlin lever gun i am finally getting decent hunting accuracy. What finally became clear to me is reloading this 410 like it is cast boolit rifle does NOT work. The faster burning powders like SR4759 and I4198 fail because of the long forcing cone. The boolit (slug) in a roll crimped hull must travel 0.7" before engaging the rifling. The faster the powder the more velocity the boolit had when it engaged the rifling and tries to start spinning. My proof of this is watching groups become patterns as i increased the powder charge.

    Couple weeks ago i switched to medium burn rate powders and accuracy immediately improved. I now have one load that will shoot less than 2" @ 100 yards. A lot more testing and load workup is needed before i hunt with this 410, but i can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I just hope the light isn't on the front of Casey Jones locomotive.

    I have a target pic but i wrote the load data on it and i ain't smart enough to redline a photo.

    BB

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    When it comes to revolvers, they have the same long jump. The guys that get the really good accuracy claim a hard bullet and slow powder is the way to do it. Myself, I consistently get better accuracy with Blue dot than H110 in revolvers.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    My slugs are WQ hardball alloy.

    BB

  4. #4
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    In comparing your 410 to rifle loads I've always found the slower powders to be a much better choice. Shoving the bullet (slug) into the rifling about .010" and letting the bullet slowly (relative) gain velocity in the bore usually works much better than slamming the bullet (slug) into the rifling with a jump and fast powder, it's a sure way to strip the rifling and you're back to a smooth bore and a mess to clean up. I'm speaking only from rifle experience BB, as you know more about slug shooting than I do but the right BHN of a projectile is very important also. It's as common to have pattern (group) problems with too hard an alloy as it is with one that is too soft. All this is easier to do with a rifle of course. The COL being much easier with a rifle chamber than a shotgun. Just more Jokers in the deck. Gp

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Drm50's Avatar
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    I was heavy into slug business at one time. Ohio use to be slug only until 3 yrs ago. Me and couple
    buddie's were always looking for the edge. We did 12g and 410. This was before rifled barrels. No
    matter what we did with 12g we couldn't get any better results than Brenneke slugs. We used every
    thing available, made sabots and patched slugs. Even brass casings. We had a Brit 303 rebarreled
    with a smooth bore rifle barrel that had been bored and polished to spec. We had it chambered for
    444 Marlin brass with 3/8" neck to crimp 41 cal bullets. We modified a 41 mold into a quasi Minnie
    Ball. Poured them with pure lead and WW while experimenting. After all this our loads and gun shot
    no better than a old Savage 24 with Brenneke slugs. In all our slug experiments the main thing the
    slug requires is uniformity. Not only in the slug but in loading pressure, wads and shot cups. We didn't have a Marlin lever but I would be willing to bet that brass casings and uniform crimping of
    the slug will tighten up groups considerably, reguardless of powder and charge. Rifled barrels put a
    stop to our ongoing slug fest.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    "less than 2" at 100 yds." That's not too shabby right there BB. Open or scoped sights?
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  7. #7
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    "less than 2" at 100 yds." That's not too shabby right there BB. Open or scoped sights?
    Scope on 6x.

    BB

  8. #8
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    This 410 project is something i want to do with a regular metal/plastic 410 hull. If i were to use all brass hulls it would create a problem because s 410 bullet would be way lose in the thin walled brass hull. Also finding dies for seating/crimping the brass might be a problem.

    I have eliminated a number of the load variables.

    No gas seal, fillets or wads are used.
    Oversized bullet fits tight in the hull.
    Loaded hull fits very snug in the chamber.
    Each round is compressed to 60 pounds
    Each round is immediately roll crimped after compression.
    Bullet weights are +/- 0.5 grain.
    Every boolit (slug) is carefully inspected before loading.
    Boolits are unsized and pan lubed.

    Another note, i do not shoot from a rest. I shoot standing using an elevated platform. My fighter pilot son generally can best my groups using my rifles and handloads by about 50%. I still classify the 410 marlin as experimental so he doesn't get to shoot it.

    BB

  9. #9
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Target pic

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Figured out how to crop an image.

    BB

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    That's outstanding. Make you some homemade shooting sticks just right for the chair you'll be sitting in.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  11. #11
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    HT,

    I've got sticks but never take them hunting cause i prefer to sit on the ground. I do shoot a lot better sitting in a folding camp chair using sticks but i can sit still for much longer on the ground than in a chair.

    BB

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    How do you fare when yo thin **** be froze to da ground BB? I likes my comfort and my naps!
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  13. #13
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    How do you fare when yo thin **** be froze to da ground BB? I likes my comfort and my naps!
    HT,

    I buy disposable hand, feet and body warmers by the case. I wear expedition grade base layer if the temp is below 40F. If the temp is below 20F i stay inside and nap on the couch.

    BB

  14. #14
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Sitting on the ground while shooting will be over for a few months up here in a week or two. LOL. Gp

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    If you snooze here at this time of year you will prolly wake up dead.(Saskatchewan Canada).

  16. #16
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    You's guys around Atlanta are getting a nice bath right now Huh? Panama City getting it pretty good right now on the News as of 4PM your time.

    Stay safe,,, don't want to see any of you floating down the streets in boats or canoes on TV tonight or tomorrow .

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  17. #17
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT Chambers View Post
    If you snooze here at this time of year you will prolly wake up dead.(Saskatchewan Canada).
    I hate it when that happens!

    BB

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerbeans View Post
    HT,

    I buy disposable hand, feet and body warmers by the case. I wear expedition grade base layer if the temp is below 40F. If the temp is below 20F i stay inside and nap on the couch.

    BB
    It is safe to say that I am also guilty of all of the above!
    "We'll kill them ALL!"

    Optimus Prime at the Battle of Chicago

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    BB, you know who will appreciate that gun if something happens...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quite a likeness!Click image for larger version. 

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    Ole Hatxhet Jack would have appreciated some of those newfangled warmers! But then Jeremiah wouldn't have gotten his Hawken.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  20. #20
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    HT,

    If my wife hadn't made me get a hair cut before our hog hunt i would have scared those piggies to death.

    When i was younger (tougher) i had my beard freeze like that while hunting. Nowadays that weather finds me indoors. I am planning to hunt fox squirrels tomorrow and i am going in the afternoon when it warms up. Supposed to be near 40F tomorrow morning, i think i have grown a bit weak in me old age.

    BB

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check