Titan ReloadingInline FabricationRotoMetals2Wideners
Load DataRepackboxReloading EverythingMidSouth Shooters Supply
Lee Precision
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: God hardens hearts?

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    I read in Exodus of God hardening the Pharaoh's heart. I've read other scriptures that state that The Lord God hardened hearts, blinded eyes, and deafened ears. So how does this figure into "God doesn't desire any to perish, but that all should be saved"? Does God pick winners and losers?
    The ancient Jew thought in terms of first cause. When there is a chain of causes and consequences they thought and expressed the first one. It would go like this; God gave all human's free will and Pharaoh was a human. Free will allows Pharaoh to have choices. Pharaoh chose to harden his heart and therefore God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

    It is impossible to understand the Old Testament without understanding how the writers and readers thought and expressed themselves. The New Testament in the main follows Greco-Roman logic and thinking. When we find inconsistancies between the OT and NT, most often it is because we don't understand the culture, thought patterns and circumstances of the two.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Denial
    Posts
    4,212
    Some secular thoughts on the matter:

    We are all probably familiar with the saying "If you aren't a liberal when you're a kid, then you have no heart. If you're still a liberal when you grow up, then you have no brain"

    Every critter on earth is programmed (by God, if you like) to prioritize "Me and Mine" ahead of "Thee and Thine". Every critter is going to be more inclined to be generous and noncompetitive when it has all that it perceives it needs, but when faced with a shortage of food, mates, and comfort, the notion of "Live and Let Die" gains traction pretty fast.

    One could argue that it is God that creates/allows these shortages, and that the resulting cutthroat Darwinism is nothing more than God's Plan to build a better organism (why he couldn't just build it and spare the lengthy R&D is it's own topic). Tribalism/Nationalism/Racism - pick an "ism" equating to "screw those other guys" - is just an offshoot of the grand scheme.

    So, we've got Pharaoh Ramses, who's got the kingdom of Egypt to protect, preserve, and propagate, as well as his own dynasty. That's his set of priorities, and in that hierarchy of needs (set down by God, if you like), the Hebrews are going to come out as "those other guys". While he might have been benevolent (in his own mind at least) to them at first, when the human "bricks and mortar" that he was building his society on started to get twitchy - creating shortages of a sort - one can easily see how he might have begun to view them more negatively. Ramses was simply following his genetic code - programmed by God - so yes, we can certainly say in this model that God hardens hearts. (Those he leaves soft probably vote for Hillary, Bernie, food stamps, and open borders.)

    If we want to extend this "God made it happen" concept, we can assume that the Hebrews are "God's chosen people" only because they survived to write one particular history that has become popular (hard hearts DEFINITELY required). In the Darwinian view, a hard heart is necessary to The Plan. God probably decided that the best way to improve the species was to put the Egyptians and Hebrews together in a cage and drop a knife in the middle of the floor. They're still stabbing away at each other to this day, so this "choosing" seems to be taking a long time. Not seeing a lot of divine doctrinal favoritism there - just a patient wait for some kind of cream to float to the top. As for the "wants us all to be saved", I suppose it's possible we all get thanked with a gold retirement watch in the afterlife for putting up with the boss' vision. As it is in Heaven, so shall it be on Earth.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master



    Dieselhorses's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    1,313
    Eh, I found this...[I]Ecclesiastes 8:16-17

    16 When I applied mine heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done upon the earth: (for also there is that neither day nor night seeth sleep with his eyes
    17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea farther; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.

    In other words, from the way I understand it, we either believe or don't believe as we have free will. Of course God knows the ALL, as in who will walk the narrow road and who won't, but in this day and time we have "free will". We can follow Him or follow Satan (despite those who think "good works" alone will redeem). I'm in no way judging because I am far from perfect!
    The unexamined life is not worth living....Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body....USMC
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is FINAL!....Wyatt Earp

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy Newboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South, by God, Carolina
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    Here we have a good example of why it's so difficult to discuss theology. Some believe one thing, and are haughty enough to think those who don't believe the same way are wicked or evil, and it's just not so! CHrist encouraged us to read and study, and studying involves discussion with others. He also promised that if we'd seek, we'd find. But what he left out is that if we want and intend to find vaidation of what we already think or believe, then that's what we'll find. Or if we read and study looking for excuses for ourselves and our actions, then THAT is what we'll find in that case. ONLY those who read and study and discuss with the intent and determination to find the simple Truth, will find what Christ's will truly is for them. And it's a lifelong refining process, and that means that we never get it "ALL." Not a one among us! Diligence and simple, humble honesty is the key to understanding, and receiving revelations of what is meant by what Christ left for us to read and study and think about. Those who want quick, simple, pat, easy answers tend to be literalists. Those who want to know ALL that Christ tried so hard to teach us, tend to be open to both literal and figurative interpretations. Personally, I believe every verse in the Bible has more than one meaning, depending on one's current situation and point of perspective. And why wouldn't that be a good thing, when our experiences and situations are so widely varied on a daily basis???

    I enjoy hearing others' ideas, but some I don't understand. A few, I don't think there IS an understanding for, really. But every idea expressed an have certain value if we simply listen with our hearts AND our minds. How could Christ have left us a more miraculous body of text to study and enjoy than if this is true??? I never assume I have THE key to understanding all there is in it, simply because I'm humbly aware that I DON'T have it all understood. But I'm grateful for what I have, and I'm open to learning more - as much as I possibly can. Some folks help me with that. Some don't. I suspect it's much the same for us all???
    I think that is the difference between having a teachable spirit, and a dogmatic one. The teachable spirit is open to the teachings of the Spirit, whereas the dogmatic thinks he knows the truth, and refuses to consider any other view.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy armednfree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    254
    I always had a real problem with predestination. The question is, Would a loving God create souls he knew would spend eternity in hell? I can see him knowing every potential and where each one leads though. But which potential is taken must be by free will.

    Of course I don't think God truly knew everything before He made himself flesh in Christ.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master





    Idaho45guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Idaho/Washington border
    Posts
    2,655
    Was thinking about this subject earlier today when discussing politics with a liberal co-worker. It sure seemed like there was a "hardening of hearts" when trying to discuss issues. In fact, providing facts and truths from unbiased and clearly backed sources did nothing to dissuade this person. They could see and read facts and evidence that absolutely disproved their position, but they could not accept them.

    Seems like that is happening on a very large scale lately all across the globe. Almost like there is a supernatural force at work blinding people to obvious facts and evidence.

    Came here to start a thread about the possibility of God hardening hearts as a precursor to the end times and found this thread. Good stuff.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  7. #27
    Boolit Master



    Dieselhorses's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    1,313
    It’s all in the Bible-prophecy. And yes we could very be living in the end times. I “believe” in God and the Bible simply because I’ve seen first hand where that faith gets me. Many see God as a loving, merciful God- which He is. But He is also jealous and has every right to be. Jesus clearly said to believe on Him and we’d have eternal life. There are many things that will happen right before the rapture and many after that folks won’t understand. Anyway sorry to rant on!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The unexamined life is not worth living....Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body....USMC
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is FINAL!....Wyatt Earp

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check