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Thread: Info on repro Enfield P58 and P61?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    Info on repro Enfield P58 and P61?

    Info needed on repro Enfield P58 and P61?

    I'm starting to shop for an Enfield P58 2 band or P61 Musketoon model.

    What do folks think of the Italian models including the Parker Hale versions, both new and used?

    Does anyone know how to tell if the PH is British built or Italian built. I've researched but need an idea from the SN as inspection of marks may not be possible.

    This is for my Canadian interests and not for the ACW repros.

    Thanks
    Bob
    Last edited by Canuck Bob; 10-07-2018 at 12:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Bob View Post
    Info needed on repro Enfield P58 and P61?

    I'm starting to shop for an Enfield P58 2 band or P61 Musketoon model.

    What do folks think of the Italian models including the Parker Hale versions, both new and used?

    Does anyone know how to tell if the PH is British built or Italian built. I've researched but need an idea from the SN as inspection of marks may not be possible.

    This is for my Canadian interests and not for the ACW repros.

    Thanks
    Bob
    Bob
    my son has a Euroarms two bander - for some reason a Parker Hale was always "better" by about twice the price - dont look any different to the casual observer, dont shoot any better. If you are a dedicated re enactor things are different (thats not my game)

    We had a three bander for a start - couldnt get it to shoot minies worth a hoot (1:72 twist) - some fellers manage this, I suspect if you knew enough about minie design maybe, but we switched to the two band with the 48 twist and it was an easy deal

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Rather easy to tell...if the gun has Birmingham proofs....its most likely made in Birmingham.............if it has Gardone proofs......its made there.....Both countries have strict proof laws ,its illegal to offer a gun for sale not proofed at the relevant proof house.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy

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    May I suggest you try the BB on N-SSA.org? They are a very large group of serious musket shooters. They should be able to help you

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Canuck Bob,
    On the Italian repro's you can get unexpected but not always unwelcome changes from the original design specs.
    Case in point, my "P53" has a 48" twist barrel. In real life the 48" twist appeared with P58's.
    I think some makers make barrels that they happen to be set up for right then. So if I ever buy a "P58" I'm gonna find out what's inside of it before I go plunking down the money.
    Unless it was a real for real England made thunder stick like my (woefully as yet unfired) musketoon.

    By the way, speaking of England made, the blankety blank nipple was the most stubborn task of removal I've ever run upon. In preparation for shooting it I spent weeks convincing it to unscrew without damaging anything. They ( at the factory) must have had Billie Badboy installing nipples with an 18" cheater. Any how, just saying to say you might want to check the nipple for removal prior to going shooting if you happen upon an English made musket. Oh well, then again not everyone removes the nipple when they clean a percussion arm any way. But I'm ready to go bang when ever time allows.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    On the Italian repro's you can get unexpected but not always unwelcome changes from the original design specs.
    Case in point, my "P53" has a 48" twist barrel. In real life the 48" twist appeared with P58's.
    I think some makers make barrels that they happen to be set up for right then. So if I ever buy a "P58" I'm gonna find out what's inside of it before I go plunking down the money.

    we have had a couple of slow twist 58's (a three bander enfield - italian - and a Zoli mississippi rifle) the Enfield migrated and the zoli will too - neither of them wanted to shoot straight with minies (both good roundball shooters) - the 48 twist two bander we got was easy to work with so it gets to stay. I would not buy another slow twist minie gun - will pay attention next tiime!!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    Thank you all, I pulled the trigger on a Parker Hale British made P61 Artillery Carbine (Musketoon). It looks low shot count and in nice condition. It should arrive by the end of the week. I decided on going with the gen 1 PH. Originally leaning toward the P58 Naval Short Rifle. However I ended up with the P61 because I'm an old Artillery Militia Gunner and the original carbine was issued to the Canadian Militia.

    I'll be careful with the nipple, thanks for the warning.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy

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    Always clean the nipple prior to shooting and use anti seize on the threads when replacing it and don't crank on a breaker bar when tightening it, just snug is good with a nipple wrench.
    SMOKELESS IS JUST A PASSING FAD!-STEVE GARBE
    NRA ENDOWMENT MEMBER
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    ADAPT, IMPROVISE, OVERCOME!
    "ANY MAN WHO THINKS HE CAN BE HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS BY LETTING THE GOVERNMENT TAKE CARE OF HIM, BETTER TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE AMERICAN INDIAN!"-HENRY FORD

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Getting that nipple out of mine was a real booger.
    Don't know when I'll get the time to shoot.
    Being unfired maybe should sell it

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Bob View Post
    Thank you all, I pulled the trigger on a Parker Hale British made P61 Artillery Carbine (Musketoon). It looks low shot count and in nice condition. It should arrive by the end of the week. I decided on going with the gen 1 PH. Originally leaning toward the P58 Naval Short Rifle. However I ended up with the P61 because I'm an old Artillery Militia Gunner and the original carbine was issued to the Canadian Militia.

    I'll be careful with the nipple, thanks for the warning.
    NOE has/had the correct bullet mould to make Pritchett bullets for your new musket. I have the same one as you, and have found they shoot better than any minie' or roundball I have tried.
    "Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est."

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check