Why is 9mm great for people and not bears?

[jmort]

For bears: You should carry the BIGGEST caliber you can shoot accurately.

For humans: You should carry the BIGGEST caliber you can shoot accurately.

End of discussion!

Makes sense to me

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Overpenitration is often talked about, I’ve never seen or heard about in reality. I’ve seen lots of examples of underpenitrating

[Time Killer]

There is no such thing as over penetration when defending yourself in the wild. You want as big a meta plate as you can use and as heavy a bullet when talking about defense in close quarters. There is also a big difference when hunting a bear and when defending against one charging or attacking you. Almost anything can be killed with a 22 but I would not want to be relying on one with a big sow or boar bear charging me.

Defending yourself against a human you do have to worry about over perpetration. Your kids could be in the next room, others could be around the individual you are shooting, the bullet could go threw your sheet rock wall and kill some one outside of the house etc. That is why so many defensive pistol bullets are designed to stop at around 12-16 inches. The 9mm and 40 have been designed just for that. That type of bullet is not acceptable for defense against a bear.

[Bigslug]

Time Killer has largely nailed one of the key points - most of your 9/.40/.45 carry ammo has been optimized for solving a two-legged, urban problem for which the FBI's specified 12-18" of "ideal" penetration for a duty/CCW is highly appropriate. Selecting that same performance envelope on an animal with a "horizontal" layout is probably less than optimum.

On the other side of the equation, anyone who's done penetration testing in those calibers or power ranges with harder cast alloys will tell you that it's a completely different ball game. Milk jugs being my standard test media, it's been my experience that you can get three times the penetration with a non-expanding LFN compared to what you'll see from the top-shelf duty loads with hollow points and squishy 9 BHN cores.

And that's the key thing to remember here: all of the 1980's controversy over the 9mm's effectiveness was ultimately linked to poor bullet selection for the task at hand. Looked at from another angle - you can absolutely, positively, kill an elephant quite rapidly dead with a .30-06, but you wouldn't want to try it while loading 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. A hard, heavy 9mm may not be the optimum handgun choice for black bear, but considering that the optimum handgun choice is simply a larger lump of non-expanding subsonic lead, it's probably wrong to call it drastically inferior.

[MT Gianni]

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...#axzz5SvoQtw6D

Perhaps we don't know all we think we know.

[Idaho45guy]

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...#axzz5SvoQtw6D

Perhaps we don't know all we think we know.

Great link!

[9.3X62AL]

Good info, Gianni. Many thanks!

[am44mag]

9mm on a bear sounds like a great way to meet God sooner than later.

Bears are not people, even if the skeletal structures and weight are sort of similar. There's a reason 44 mag tends to be considered the MINIMUM for bear defense.

[Sailormilan2]

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...#axzz5SvoQtw6D

Perhaps we don't know all we think we know.

Beat me to the punch.

[tazman]

Thankfully, bears aren't an issue here in Illinois, so I don't have to concern myself with those. The nastiest thing in the woods will be coyotes or the very occasional mountain lion.
Years ago, we didn't have to worry about either of those but they are in the area now.
A good 9mm would work for either of those but I tend to carry a 357 mag for comfort.
Different areas would require different equipment.

[jmort]

The huge bear killed by the guide, Phil (?), in the linked article, is a well known incident. He was using Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman 9mm and the story is on the Buffalo Bore website. He had the right bullet for the job. Over the years, I have come to respect the 9mm with a decent meplat more and more. Very efficient case.
BTW, great article. Thank you MT Gianni.

[Traffer]

Why is 9mm great for people and not bears? ...I think it is because Bears have a hard time racking the first round into the gun. And bears are lousy shots.

[lefty o]

common handguns are underpowered for either IMO.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

why is 9mm great for people and not bears? ...i think it is because bears have a hard time racking the first round into the gun. And bears are lousy shots.

hhahaahahahahaaha!!!!!!!!!!

[KCSO]

If you mean easy to shoot bears don't have thumbs!

If you mean to do damage to people it isn't really all that special it demands proper placement and most folks won't practice enough for that, same as the 38 special. It will kill deer hogs coyotes and woodchucks ok IF you put the bullet in the right spot. It is not a preferred hunting cartridge.

[Murphy]

Just my 2 cent's.

A human know's when they've been shot and react accordingly, for the most part anyway.

Bears, don't know they've been shot and continue forward with their plans until they run out of blood or oxygen.

Murphy

[HABCAN]

Bears are a LOT harder to STOP than people, that's 'why'.

[KCSO]

Bears is a wide subject, there is a vast difference between a 125 pound black bear and a 1000 pound grizzly. Mostly bears are thisk skinned with masses of real muscle and gristle and you need to penetrate that and still break bones. On a griz the 115 9mm wouldn't even punch through to the vitals and would be iffy on a large black bear. Humans on the other hand are for the most part, thin skinned and lightly muscled compared to a wild animal. Although I have a couple of friends that I wouldn't want to shoot with a 9mm either.

Then you get to the attitude factor and here is where the 9 is a loser. On an animal a fatal wound that is not an instant kill will put them into attack mode. Most humans when shot don't react that way...but some do.

I was asked one time why I carried a 45 and my reply was 'cause Colt don't make a 50. I do carry a 9 for a backup gun on occasion but I PRACTICE, a LOT.

[gwpercle]

Bears are bigger, tougher, meaner , nastier, stronger and more aggressive to the point of they will not only kill you , they will eat your body and enjoy it ! It's the nature of the beast .
We , on the other hand are weak , small and frail , not too tough at all . We can be dispatched very easily.
Harsh words can make some people cry . Don't mess with the bears!

[megasupermagnum]

Bears are bigger, tougher, meaner , nastier, stronger and more aggressive to the point of they will not only kill you , they will eat your body and enjoy it ! It's the nature of the beast .
We , on the other hand are weak , small and frail , not too tough at all . We can be dispatched very easily.
Harsh words can make some people cry . Don't mess with the bears!

I wont claim to be an expert, but I don't know where people get that black bears are these giant killers. It's rare I see one bigger than I am, and as far as aggressiveness, humans are far more aggressive. The thing is though that a black bear knows it can kill you if it wants, I don't trust them one bit. It's rare to see them in most of Minnesota, most live in the north east part of the state. The big difference between people and bears is the stance. With a bear you have to go though the shoulders, which have lots of muscle and fat, bones, and finally the organs. A 9mm with a hardcast or FMJ bullet would probably do it. Not much for a wound channel though. Deer are a far bigger threat, especially this time of year. Dogs are the squirliest animals I've ever come across though. Most are goofy house pets, but some have a screw loose.