Why is 9mm great for people and not bears?

[Lloyd Smale]

want more statistics. Heres Yellowstone park. If you've been there you know up close and personal interaction with bears is probably more prevalent there then anywhere in the US. This isn't just black bear either.

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2018/05/bea...#ixzz5Uf0JpWpr
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Since Yellowstone was established in 1872, eight people have been killed by bears in the park. More people in the park have died from drowning, burns (after falling into hot springs), and suicide than have been killed by bears. To put it in perspective, the probability of being killed by a bear in the park (8 incidents) is only slightly higher than the probability of being killed by a falling tree (6 incidents), in an avalanche (6 incidents), or being struck and killed by lightning (5 incidents).

[Lloyd Smale]

want more statistics. Heres Yellowstone park. If you've been there you know up close and personal interaction with bears is probably more prevalent there then anywhere in the US. This isn't just black bear either.

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2018/05/bea...#ixzz5Uf0JpWpr
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

Since Yellowstone was established in 1872, eight people have been killed by bears in the park. More people in the park have died from drowning, burns (after falling into hot springs), and suicide than have been killed by bears. To put it in perspective, the probability of being killed by a bear in the park (8 incidents) is only slightly higher than the probability of being killed by a falling tree (6 incidents), in an avalanche (6 incidents), or being struck and killed by lightning (5 incidents).

If we throw out the fatality thing and just look at injurys heres Yellowstone again.

Since 1980, over 100 million people have visited Yellowstone. During this time, 38 people were injured by bears in the park. For all park visitors combined, the chances of being injured by a grizzly bear are approximately 1 in 2.7 million. The risk is significantly lower for people who don't leave developed areas.

those are about lottery odds and again were talking grizzly bears and black bears. Im showing statistics. Where are statistics showing its actually something to worry about. Other then one posters claim that 30 percent of his camp have been attacked. that one would surely qualify for the Guinness world book of records. maybe something happened. I don't know, I wasn't there but if it did id bet his definition of a bad bear encounter are sure different then mine. I would imagine theres some so scared of them that just seeing one in the wild is considered a bad encounter. Like I said this whole thing is ridiculous.

[CJR]

Apparently, some are having trouble with some of my comments on references and statistics;

1. My reference;"List of Fatal Black Bear Attacks in North America Over the Last 20 Years". is specifically referencing black bear attacks. I don't know how someone can interpret it as being about other types of bears.
2. Using a large sample size (i.e. population) is commonly used to lower a statistical risk. So if I have ten (10) events divided by the population of an entire State, that event will have a very low risk. Also, that calculated risk also applies to every person in the State; even people living in large cities say like New York city. Now when we intentionally enter a smaller hunting area, we have the number of risks(i.e. number of black bears in that hunting area) divided by a lower population (i.e. people in that small hunting area) which increases our risks of an encounter. As the reference I cited clearly shows that black bears are unpredictable predators and not rabbits. They have a very keen sense of smell and can close the distance for an inspection or distance themselves from you. In my personal experience (i.e. 550lbs to 637 lb black bears) and knowledge of an 800 lb. black bear kill in my hunting area, the bigger the black bear the less likely they are to distance themselves from you, As my reference clearly shows, black bears will kill and eat adults if they feel they can. The fact that black bears can scent you and may choose to close the distance to you will increase the risk further. Just dividing the number of black bears by some population of people does not take into account the fact that a bear can scent you and close the distance to you. So the risk statistics cited, by others on this thread, is equivalent to having some number of say, Black Rocks, divided by some large people population; in other words it's the risk, of each member of a population, tripping over a Black Rock as they walk in an area or State.
3. The purpose of citing black bear encounters, from the 1800s to present, is only used to reduce the mathematical risk of black bear encounters. As an example, there are more deer in the USA today then in the 1800s; the deer population has steadily increased to the present. Likewise, black bear populations have also increased rapidly. Therefore, in my view, the fatalities caused by black bears, in the last 20 years is more relevant in assessing the risks of black bear encounters today simply because the black bear population is much larger than it was in the 1800s.
4. Finally, I know nothing about how Yellowstone Park manages their bear population with regard to tourists; nor do I really care. I'm only interested in where I scout and hunt and that area has a good number of large black bears.

Best regards,

CJR

[Lloyd Smale]

your chance of running across a 500lb bear in the woods are probably as good of odds as one eating you. An 800lb black bear would make national news. Id bet 99 percent of the black bears shot in this country are under 300lbs. Probably a good 75 percent closer to 200. No matter where you live an 800lb black bear is a freak!!! Wear your tin foil hat if it makes you feel secure. Bears getting more frequent and so are attacks??? Heres some more FACTS check out the attacks that occurred since 2010 there are only 3 deaths in the continental US. 3!!! out the whole population of the continental United States!! One was a bunch of idiots that were warned there was a bear by another hiker that thought it would be fun to walk up close and take pictures. One an old cripple lady walking her dog, and one an a guy who totally illegaly had dangerous animals for pets. Sorry no 600lb bears hunting down and killing men and not a single one in PA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._North_America Like I posted before not a single fatality in the last 100 years in your neck of the woods. That's probably 1000s of bear encounters without a single fatality.

Respect is one thing but fear is redicuolus. I was an electrical lineman. I wonder how many pa lineman were killed doing there job in that time period? I wonder how many loggers? I wonder how many white colar business men were killed in car wrecks on there way to work in there cubicles? I really wonder how many BRAVE PA men died in combat in that time period? be careful though because smokys looking for breakfast. Lots of real danger in the world today. Enough so that I don't have to create fantasy's. there is TWO dangerous animals in the US today and that's the grizzly bear and MAN. Well maybe 3. Some rare places in this US have cougar problems too and they can be aggressive but its almost as rare as black bears and isn't a wide spread problem. Personaly id feel more comfortable walking in the woods knowing there was two black bear every square mile then two rattle snakes. Snakes kill ALOT more people every year in this country then smoky is responsible for.

To me its about like going to Miami on vacation and being afraid to go into the water because you might get ate by a shark! Truth be told the ride to camp is more dangerous then the bears and the flight to Miami is more dangerous then the chance of a shark attack and the car ride to the airport is more dangerous then either. Want to be safer next hunting season? Forget the bear protection and leave the car at home and walk to camp or just stay home if your that insecure. Got to go now. Its time to take the dog for a walk. Now wheres my 458????

[Lloyd Smale]

heres some more FACTS on dangerous things in the united states. Best take lots of bug spray to camp too. https://historylist.wordpress.com/20...ed-by-animals/

[CJR]

Lloyd,

Thank you so much for your astute response. I see now that you like to further minimize the risks of black bear encounters by comparing the black bear encounters to the ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE USA, which is a sample size of about 325,000,000 people. Yeah right.

Regarding black bears killed in PA. All black bear kills in PA are supposed to be reported to the PA Game Commission and are thus recorded. So instead of "cherry picking" your fact sources; you need to ask the PA Game Commission for the PA black bear kills/weights instead of citing Wiki-whatever. I completely understand you're having a real hard time accepting facts, but the facts remain;

1. Your risk of encountering black bears ALWAYS INCREASES WHEN YOU ENTER BLACK BEAR COUNTRY. A much greater rick than entering your local Walmart or the risk to about 325,000,000 people living in the USA.
2. Black bears are PREDATORS and always have been PREDATORS and are not play-animals or friends of children. It is fact that they have run-down, killed or mauled or eaten babies, children, and adults.

Whether you believe or accept these facts is immaterial to me. My sole purpose here is to increase the awareness of the greater risk of black bear encounters when one enters an area containing black bear. How anyone, prepares for that walk in a black bear area, is their choice alone.

Oh and thanks again for recommending I carry a large broom in bear country. That's the best tip I've ever received.

Best regards,

CJR

[charlie b]

I find the Yellowstone statistics amusing.

Yep, MILLIONS of visitors every year. And all but a handful stay on roads or pathways and have no interaction nor do they even get near a bear. Some may get to see one at a distance. They are not actually IN bear habitat. The campers are more at danger due to garbage, but, in recent decades that has been controlled tightly. Now days the danger are the idiot tourists who run into the field to get a picture with the bear. So the statistics on bear attacks should be limited to the idiots and those who actually hike into the habitat, probably in the hundreds per year, not millions.

The rangers at Yellowstone all carry bear spray since many of them actually work in the bear habitat. The ones I have talked to say that it works most of the time, ie, if they are not between a mother and cub.

[Lloyd Smale]

show me your statistics. Im looking up facts. Didn't cherry pick a thing. All you have is opinion. Like I said before it reminds me of liberals trying to an ar15 will jump out of the safe and kill you all by itself. Show me some facts that prove I should be nervous taking a walk in the woods. As to my chances of a bear attack increasing when I go where they are is kind of silly. Of course it does. But then they are in my back yard and the reality is theres trees in the woods to and even though more people are killed in the woods by them then bears I don't wear a helmet when I walk n the woods. No wild animal is a pet and you need tor respect them and respect the fact that your in there home. Which is proven by statistics that show most who have bad encounters did something stupid to start with. Black bears arent sneaking around looking for humans to eat.

Like I said some just want to think there brave just walking in the woods. Most of us were out in black bear country when we were 10 years old with or daisy bb gun. The fact that you cant show cases of deaths caused by black bear in your state is all the proof I need or anyone should need. If you feel you need a SAW and some bandoleros of ammo to walk out in the back yard of your camp then do it. I promise I wont laugh Man I hope I never have to walk in the woods in the very dangerous state of PA. Heck a volcano might erupted a plane fall out of the sky or big foot might kill me. About the same odds as 800lb killer black bears.

I showed you the real facts now you dig around and find some bear kills that the pa game commission hidden from us. SHOW ME THE MONEY! Heck I wouldn't even recommend a broom for you. Im sure in the past 100 years more then one person died from an infected wood splinter in PA. Buy some Kevlar for a first layer and then wrap yourself and your family in bubble wrap and head to the basement. Be careful on the steps though. Many in Pa have been killed in the last 100 years falling down steps. Sorry If I offend you in any way. Its not your fault. Its no doubt where and how you were raised. I have to leave this one now for good because if I told you how I really thought it would be much more personal and I don't want a time out. Its an absolute fact that your chance of going for a walk in the woods today and getting killed by a bear is probably a great or even greater then winning the power ball lottery tonight. If you have FACTs that show different then post them but my guess is if they were out there you would have done that already.

Lloyd,

Thank you so much for your astute response. I see now that you like to further minimize the risks of black bear encounters by comparing the black bear encounters to the ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE USA, which is a sample size of about 325,000,000 people. Yeah right.

Regarding black bears killed in PA. All black bear kills in PA are supposed to be reported to the PA Game Commission and are thus recorded. So instead of "cherry picking" your fact sources; you need to ask the PA Game Commission for the PA black bear kills/weights instead of citing Wiki-whatever. I completely understand you're having a real hard time accepting facts, but the facts remain;

1. Your risk of encountering black bears ALWAYS INCREASES WHEN YOU ENTER BLACK BEAR COUNTRY. A much greater rick than entering your local Walmart or the risk to about 325,000,000 people living in the USA.
2. Black bears are PREDATORS and always have been PREDATORS and are not play-animals or friends of children. It is fact that they have run-down, killed or mauled or eaten babies, children, and adults.

Whether you believe or accept these facts is immaterial to me. My sole purpose here is to increase the awareness of the greater risk of black bear encounters when one enters an area containing black bear. How anyone, prepares for that walk in a black bear area, is their choice alone.

Oh and thanks again for recommending I carry a large broom in bear country. That's the best tip I've ever received.

Best regards,

CJR

[Larry in MT]

A bit of info in response to the ORIGINAL POSTER.


read:https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...ts-by-caliber/

[Lloyd Smale]

Larry I see 9mms and 40s took care of business for the most part. I have been known to walk around in the woods around home and camp with a 9 or 40 on my hip. That said I don't think id take that chance with those giant killer bears in Pennsylvania id have to grab my 475 or 500 Linebaugh at least and preferably my 458.

A bit of info in response to the ORIGINAL POSTER.


read:https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...ts-by-caliber/