MRAD vs MOA vs .25" Adjustments...

[BCB]

I understand the MOA and the .25" adjustment clicks on a 'scope...

But, what is MRAD?...

I would like to put the QuickLoad program to work and used the calculations it gives for changing impact points with a known zero. Say, zeroed at 150 yards. To hit dead center at 200 yards, adjust 3 clicks up. (This is just an example and not likely accurate at all)...

So, can the QL be used with MRAD?...

Thanks...BCB

[Bigslug]

Quickload? Couldn't tell ya. . .

But MRAD is shorthand for "miliradian" or, more simply put, a mil-dot scope. Basically, you have a scaled reticle with spaced dots that you use against a target of known size to estimate range. When properly calibrated, the dots are 3.6" apart at 100 yards, or, if you like 36" (one yard) at a thousand yards. A lot of newer mil scopes are set with adjustments in 1/10 of a mil, which works out to 0.36 MOA per click. It makes for pretty easy on-the-fly adjustment if you make your corrections in tenths of the amount of space between two dots on your crosshairs.

But unless you're some math whiz, trying to convert from MOA and inches to mils, or using one of the older scopes with mil crosshairs and MOA knobs will probably just make your head ache.

[tazman]

It gets even better. I have a scope from a major manufacturer that has mil-dot reticle. The knobs are marked 1/4 in clicks. When you make the adjustments the movement of the impact point is 3 clicks to the inch(approximately) at 100 yards.
Obviously the knobs are mis-marked. It makes it a little interesting when trying to make small adjustments at yardage if you don't remember the problem.
I don't know how they missed it. This scope is a 6X24 intended for longer range usage and works well other than the inappropriate marking. I have three of them on different rifles and all are the same way.

[BCB]

tazman—Bigslug…

Thanks. I have been reading a bit about it also and I agree with both of you. It is complicated and conversion factors do me NO GOOD at my range!!!...

Having a click adjustment of 0.36” is simply too much to really fine tune a P.O.I. That much adjustment might be O.K. to hit large silhouettes at 300 or so yards and a man at 1000 yards, but to bust 12-ounce beverage cans at 200 yards, that is too much movement—dang near ¾ inch per click at that distance. I have ‘scopes that have 1/8 inch clicks…

But, it seems the ‘scopes I might be interested in are mostly MRAD. Although they are offered in ¼ MOA clicks also. That would be acceptable as I reckon that is very close to ¼ inch at 100 yards…

Bigslug, I did look through QL and didn’t find any reference to MRAD. QL can be a bit overwhelming to navigate through from time to time. I still would prefer ¼ inch or ¼ MOA adjustments…

Oh well, keep looking for the proper ‘scope. I’m looking for a ‘scope with the adjustment numbers on the outside of the turrets so I don’t have to remove the covers. The BIG DOLLAR ‘scopes offer it, but I was looking for something in the $600-$700 range. Vortex seems to be the likely one to research, but MRAD is a common feature on many of them also…

Thanks…BCB

[dk17hmr]

Nothing wrong with MRAD for shooting small stuff. Can you hold the difference between .36 and .25? Most people can't.

[BCB]

Nothing wrong with MRAD for shooting small stuff. Can you cold the difference between .36 and .25? Most people can't

Well, maybe so...

Maybe I just resist change of something I have been using for over 1/2 century. "1/4" @ 100 yards". M.O.A. is close enough to 1/4" @ 100 yards so that I sort of accept too...

And, I have become quite impressed by QL when it comes to telling me how many clicks to go to be "dead on" at various ranges when a known zero is entered into the program...

So, maybe if QL had the MRAD info, I would be more comfortable using it...

But until then, it's the "old fashioned" method preferred by BCB...

Thanks...BCB

[Neverhome]

A mil/mil scope is really a step up for long range work and especially unknown distance shooting. Mil/mil meaning mildot reticle and mrad turrets. Doesn't matter what distance you are shooting, if your zero is off due to any reason you just see in the reticle how many mils off it is and dial that number of mils into the turret. So stinking easy

[dk17hmr]

It's all subject to environmental. Bad data in is bad data out. I learned alot after getting a kestrel. I thought I was pretty good prior to that purchase, with phone apps and drop chats printed at home..... Very humbling. In the long run MIL is easy to learn and the difference between moa and mil in real life shooting doesn't matter.

Make sure your reticle matches your turret.

[osteodoc08]

.1 MRAD is also 1 cm at 100 meters as well.

For me, using a FFP scope and MRAD is easy. If I miss, hold over the correction or dial it in and fire off another.

[Larry Gibson]

BCB

Not sure if GL allows/computes use of MRAD adjustments(?). However, I much prefer the finer .25 per click adjustment of most MOA scopes vs the .36 per click of most MRAD scopes. With a precision rifle of sub moa accuracy the courser adjustment can move the center of the cone of fire from one side to the other or top of to bottom of. For long range shooting at smaller targets (like PDs, ground squirrels, rock chucks, etc.) the finer adjustment is also preferred. Actually with a really precision capable rifle many prefer 1/8th moa adjustments for the above mentioned reasons. With precision rifles and the finer scope adjustments they are able to "center up" on the target for better accuracy.

[BCB]

BCB

Not sure if GL allows/computes use of MRAD adjustments(?). However, I much prefer the finer .25 per click adjustment of most MOA scopes vs the .36 per click of most MRAD scopes. With a precision rifle of sub moa accuracy the courser adjustment can move the center of the cone of fire from one side to the other or top of to bottom of. For long range shooting at smaller targets (like PDs, ground squirrels, rock chucks, etc.) the finer adjustment is also preferred. Actually with a really precision capable rifle many prefer 1/8th moa adjustments for the above mentioned reasons. With precision rifles and the finer scope adjustments they are able to "center up" on the target for better accuracy.

I agree 100%...

The adjustment increments are simply too large to “fine tune” points of impact with 0.36” per click…

I have sighted rifles in for other people (yes, this does happen!) when they had a ‘scope on it with ½ inch movement per click. All well and good for deer. Hitting 12-ounce beverage cans at 200 yards is another ballgame. Yep, the ‘scope cross hairs might just center on that can, but if not, each click is 1 inch at 200 yards. The impact likely will be on one side or there other with a dead center hold. But, for deer hunting, this is O.K.

I have Burris handgun ‘scopes that have 1/8th inch per click adjustments. These can be fine-tuned to have p.o.i. at 300 yards at the p.o.h. Try that with an mrad or a ½ inch click. Mrad would be over 1” movement at 300 yards per click and the 1/2” would be 1.5 inch. The 1/8th is only 3/8th inch…

I realize that one must have a pretty good shooter to be even able to worry about these adjustments at 300 yards, yet there are firearms that will shoot that well…

The Burris handgun ‘scopes are on Contenders. In all honesty, there is only one of the barrels I have that can benefit from the 1/8th inch clicks. That is a Super 16” barrel chambered in 223 Remington. This Contender is more than capable of hitting 12-ounce cans at 250 yards. With the ‘scope zeroed at 250 yards, dead center holds are all that is required when using a good rest and a very calm day. I’m pretty sure it would be difficult to get a dead center hold with an mrad and maybe even ¼ inch click. Yet, my other ‘scopes are ¼ inch clicks and they do very well with fine tuning p.o.i. with p.o.h.

Oh well, guess we all have our various needs when it comes to shooting gear…

Good-luck…BCB

[tazman]

My bench rest rifle wears a scope with 1/8" clicks. I need the precision for groups on target at 200 yards.
I also have a rifle that has mil dot and the appropriate click settings. It is on a 308 silhouette/hunting type rifle. Works fine for that. Being able to dial in to a very small spot really isn't necessary with that rifle.

[Gunners Mate]

I agree 100%...

The adjustment increments are simply too large to “fine tune” points of impact with 0.36” per click…

I have sighted rifles in for other people (yes, this does happen!) when they had a ‘scope on it with ½ inch movement per click. All well and good for deer. Hitting 12-ounce beverage cans at 200 yards is another ballgame. Yep, the ‘scope cross hairs might just center on that can, but if not, each click is 1 inch at 200 yards. The impact likely will be on one side or there other with a dead center hold. But, for deer hunting, this is O.K.

I have Burris handgun ‘scopes that have 1/8th inch per click adjustments. These can be fine-tuned to have p.o.i. at 300 yards at the p.o.h. Try that with an mrad or a ½ inch click. Mrad would be over 1” movement at 300 yards per click and the 1/2” would be 1.5 inch. The 1/8th is only 3/8th inch…

I realize that one must have a pretty good shooter to be even able to worry about these adjustments at 300 yards, yet there are firearms that will shoot that well…

The Burris handgun ‘scopes are on Contenders. In all honesty, there is only one of the barrels I have that can benefit from the 1/8th inch clicks. That is a Super 16” barrel chambered in 223 Remington. This Contender is more than capable of hitting 12-ounce cans at 250 yards. With the ‘scope zeroed at 250 yards, dead center holds are all that is required when using a good rest and a very calm day. I’m pretty sure it would be difficult to get a dead center hold with an mrad and maybe even ¼ inch click. Yet, my other ‘scopes are ¼ inch clicks and they do very well with fine tuning p.o.i. with p.o.h.

Oh well, guess we all have our various needs when it comes to shooting gear…

Good-luck…BCB

If my math serves me correct the difference between a 1/4 moa at 100 yards and 1/10 of a mil is .09 about 1/10th of an inch or .10 at 100 yards for the majority of shooters (except for the bench rest guys) that are not shooting for the money that is a minuscule tolerance, , the math for mil is easy for me a FFP mil/mil scope is easy and quick to make range estimates and get the shot on target if I do my part right, I too was reluctant to the mil/mil bandwagon but now all my rifles sport a FFP mil/mil scope (Vortex Viper PST 2nd gen zero stop) and no I am not a paid Vortex rep I just like their equip and price point its what my budget could afford. I am not shooting for money just for fun and meat. When you start thinking in terms of tenths, hundredths and thousandths the math gets very easy.

Sorry did not mean to reply with qoute my bad

[Gunners Mate]

If my math serves me correct the difference between a 1/4 moa at 100 yards and 1/10 of a mil is .09 about 1/10th of an inch or .10 at 100 yards for the majority of shooters (except for the bench rest guys) that are not shooting for the money that is a minuscule tolerance, , the math for mil is easy for me a FFP mil/mil scope is easy and quick to make range estimates and get the shot on target if I do my part right, I too was reluctant to the mil/mil bandwagon but now all my rifles sport a FFP mil/mil scope (Vortex Viper PST 2nd gen zero stop) and no I am not a paid Vortex rep I just like their equip and price point its what my budget could afford. I am not shooting for money just for fun and meat.

sorry did not mean to reply with quote

[Gunners Mate]

quick math for mil
1/10 of a mil your adj for your mil/mil scope
1/10 of a mil = 1 cm at 100 meters and 10 cm at 1000 meters
now to break that down to inches and yards
1/10 of a mil = 0.39 inches at 109 yrds and 3.51 inches at 984 yards
that is less than 0.50 MOA (less than a 1/2 inch group) Is the standard 1/4 MOA reticle scope capable of finer adj the answer is yes is the average shooter capable of noticing that finer adj, probably not. Is the math for mil easier, yes by far

To put this into perspective that 3.51 inches at 984 yards is 3/4 of an inch less than the diameter of a Standard American Clay Pigeon which is 4.25 inches. If you can hit a Clay at 984 yards every time you need to be shooting for money.

[Gunners Mate]

quick math for mil
1/10 of a mil your adj for your mil/mil scope
1/10 of a mil = 1 cm at 100 meters and 10 cm at 1000 meters
now to break that down to inches and yards
1/10 of a mil = 0.39 inches at 109 yrds and 3.51 inches at 984 yards
that is less than 0.50 MOA (less than a 1/2 inch group) Is the standard 1/4 MOA reticle scope capable of finer adj the answer is yes is the average shooter capable of noticing that finer adj, probably not. Is the math for mil easier, yes by far

To put this into perspective that 3.51 inches at 984 yards is 3/4 of an inch less than the diameter of a Standard American Clay Pigeon which is 4.25 inches. If you can hit a Clay at 984 yards every time you need to be shooting for money.