44 Keith Load SWAG

[44MAG#1]

I am going to ask this question and I am going to stay out of it. First let me say, no one knows the exact answer, AGAIN NO ONE period.
Also the usual. Flash gap will make a difference, primers and different lots of the same primers, bullet alloy, bullet diameter, bore and cylinder dimensions, cases, crimp amount and type, lots of the same powder, how tight one holds the grip and how hard one presses the trigger and whether you are ahooting into or downwind and a host of the many things that can influence velocity etc. etc. so on and so forth.

Keith stated that his load chronographed around 1400 FPS for HP whites laboratory when they tested it for him. This was from a 6.5 inch solid breech test barrel that the industry used at that time.

The question. What do the people on here think that load would have done from his 4 inch carry M29?

I am just asking what you think. No one knows for sure. Please understand that as I do also.

Now lets see some guesstimates, wags and swags.

Again I am not trolling, baiting or calling out anyone by my post. I mean no harm, hurt or anguish to anyone on here. This post is made based on my knowledge, experience and/or beliefs. Nothing more. Please take it that way. Thank you

[Larry Gibson]

In the H.P. White test Keith used a 429421 cast of 16-1 alloy at 250 gr, sized .429, lubed with Lyman Banana lube loaded over 22 gr Hercules 2400. He does not state (that I could find) what the cases and primers used were but I suspect the cases were Remingtons as they developed the cartridge. The velocity out of his 4" M29s would have been 1200 - 1300 fps. It is probable he mentioned the velocity in his writings but I don't recall what it may have been.

[Paul105]

Here's one data point:

Gun: 4 1/4" S&W M69
Chrono: Competition Electronics
Distance from Muzzle: 5 long paces
Temp: 83 deg F
Elev: 5,000 ft
5 shots

Load
21.1gr A2400
250gr 429421 (.429", #2 Alloy according to maker)
WLP primer
New Top Brass

Avg: 1,250 fps
Hi: 1,288 fps
Low: 1,235 fps
ES: 53 fps

Just one data point and 1gr less than Elmer's 22.0gr/250 Keith

FWIW,

Paul

[44MAG#1]

I said I will stay out of this but, i forgot one piece of info on my first post. He said the load produced 34000 pounds. We know it was copper units of pressure. Piezo transducer pressure guns werent used at that time.
SAAMI specs on the 44 Mag is MAP is 36000PSI OR 40000CUP depending on the type of pressure gun.
So ASSUMING Whites labs knew what they were doing and the technician wasnt on a hangover or something else the pressure of the Keith load wasnt actually near MAP. Again ASSUMING..
NOW I am out of this.

Again I am not trolling, baiting or calling out anyone by my post. I mean no harm, hurt or anguish to anyone on here. This post is made based on my knowledge, experience and/or beliefs. Nothing more. Please take it that way. Thank you

[ddixie884]

Elmer wrote that his load was less pressure than the Rem factory load...........

[eck0313]

Not quite what you asked for, but Lyman’s 429421 HP, cast from wheelweights with 21 grains of 2400 and a standard primer chronographed at 1190 fps from my 4” M29. Based on this experience, I suspect 1400 fps from a 250 grain bullet and 22 grains of 2400 is a just little (50-75 fps) ambitious for a 6 1/2” barrel, even unvented.

[sharps4590]

Keiths load and the tests were a long time ago. Was the 2400 of then the same as the 2400 of today? I would think that to be accurate the load would need to be with 2400 from the period. And I don't know they're different....but, I do know other powder formulations have changed over the decades.

I also know that as a friend of mine said, back then a lot of those velocities were fired over a typewriter.

[Treeman]

2400 hasn't changed. Others have reported their own chronographed results. My own tests with Hercules 2400 and Alliant 2400 (not in .44 magnum) confirmed that it has not changed. There are and have always been lot to lot variations but the baseline performance of 2400 hasn't been altered. Some old data was pretty hot. Elmer's classic 44 magnum load wasn't extreme. He pushed the .44 special hard.....and got all he thought he needed. The higher performance of the .44 mag surpassed his .44 special loadings so I suspect he didn't feel the need to push the envelope.....as much.